Dear Ceri, Charles, Gina, John, Debra, Steve and everyone else who has
responded so far,
It has been incredible reading all the messages from so many fellow doctoral
students on this list. I had no idea my original message would call up all
these views, ideas and experiences. How wonderfully inspiring...
Gina asked earlier whether a special interest group might be of use. Sounds
to me like it probably is, but we'd have to think carefully on how to set it
up and what it would be like. I first thought that maybe a mailing list
where we could keep each other going might do the trick, but I am now
wondering whether some mentoring scheme would be better. Someone who has
already done a mature doctoral (wrong words, but you know what I mean) could
mentor someone still on their way. I think that would be very different from
working with your supervisor, who needs to concentrate on the quality of
your work, not the juggling of jobs, families, sanity and the PhD.
I would certainly benefit from someone like that, if I didn't have the
people in my study group to work with.
But I also wonder whether the opportunity for a study week, or restart week
might be a possibility. Many people have responded saying they got stuck at
some point. Maybe a week f reading, writing and reinvigorating the research
would be a rescue for quite a few people... Who would take it on?
As to getting stuck, I was given a nice approach a few years ago, that has
helped me. Within a week, try to tell ten people about what you should be
doing to restart your research. You will see a few helpful effects occur:
firstly it helps you organise your own thoughts about getting started again
so you end up with an actual plan. Secondly it gets your focus on your
research back. And then, if you're anything like me, you'll decide that
actually, now you've told so many people, you might as well do it as it
would be far too embarrassing to go through all that again.
Just a thought...
Ceri, in your case, I cannot help but wondering whether you have had enough
support when setting yourself up for the thesis. Read one of the books on
doing a PhD (there are very many good ones) and if most of it is news to
you, you may simply not have had the right kind of supervision. Is your
supervisor aware that you're worried about making it through to the end?
Have they given you any advice, any pointers towards the many PhD support
routes institutions have these days? Have they pointed you at fellow
students who might similarly benefit from some peer support?
I notice you've also just been given a really nice offer by John Wakefield.
Whenever an opportunity like that comes round, you're in luck, take it up!
But in terms of what you describe, this is precisely why the Bath DBA was
the right one for me. It has given me the chance to 'get into it', or
rather, I am still 'getting into it', whilst being on the taught part.
Incredibly helpful to find out what it really is that we should be doing. At
this stage in my life, I can't really be asked to 'see how it goes' and
'learn as you go along' anymore. I needed more clarity than that....
Finally then, just wondering, is there anyone else out there undertaking
doctoral research on student engagement at the moment? I'd love to hear from
you if you are.
Thanks again everyone for all these inspiring emails. There is clearly an
awful lot more PhD study going on in our field than I had guessed!
Gwen
-----Original Message-----
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ceridwen Coulby
Sent: 15 February 2012 19:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean]
Hi All,
I almost feel as though fate is intervening as I read this thread! I am just
coming up to transfer of my part time PhD and am very seriously concerned
that I will not make it through. (sadly not just modesty!) I have found the
first 2 years rather like walking around in the dark occasionally bumping
into a glimmer of light, struggling with knowing what to do, how to read (as
ridiculous as that sounds reading for a PhD is seemingly very different from
any other reading I have ever done), where I am going and having a critical
enough eye. I truly believe that there should be some sort of pre PhD
introductory taster to let you know what you are in for! (though that would
probably be impossible) I hope I do make it through but seeing all your
comments has been heartening- I do not feel so alone!
Many thanks to all
Ceri Coulby
Ceridwen Coulby
Educational Staff Development Manager
Leeds Institute of Medical Education
Room 7.09
Level 7, Worsley Building
University of Leeds
LS2 9NL
0113 343 2527
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/medicine/prof_dev/index.html
Follow us on twitter for teaching hints and tips twitter.com/@LeedsCPD
________________________________
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Ready [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 15 February 2012 11:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean]
Hi
For contrast.
I was in the same cohort as Roni at Lancaster. It was challenging, life
changing and fun. Very, very good years, indeed. It turned out that I could
cope and prosper in the 'taught' element of the programme. The discipline of
that led me to meet all the 8,000 word deadlines. The very moment the
programme shifted to the independent research model, I ceased all activity.
I eventually exited with the MRes award. Life, new responsibilities at work,
etc intervened, for sure, but I always had a nagging doubt about my staying
power in unstructured environments, and spent a lot of time telling my
cohort pals that I was never going to get a Phd!
I don't regret the experience at all, though. It was a really important
development phase for me.I just didn't stay the course or get a Phd!
The lesson, if there is one? Know thyself!
Rob
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bamber, Veronica
Sent: 15 February 2012 10:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean]
I would echo all of Charles' comments. I did the PhD programme at Lancaster
and, without wanting to sound sad, I have to say they were the best years of
my life! I was given support to research topics that were central to my job,
and the peer support saw me through the process and beyond. Not everyone
made it to the end, for all the reasons that people have mentioned -life
happens. I managed to do it within the minimum time frame by not having a
life for a few years, but I enjoyed every minute of it. I envy those of you
who are just starting the process, or still doing it. Enjoy!
Roni
Dr Veronica Bamber
Director of Centre for Academic Practice
Queen Margaret University
Edinburgh EH21 6UU
0131 474 0000
http://www.qmu.ac.uk/cap/
[log in to unmask]
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Neame ,Charles
Sent: 14 February 2012 16:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean]
Hi Debra,
I think the key lies in your phrase 'motivated to complete what I start'.
As your previous experience shows, it's always an uphill struggle to
complete a doctorate - and if it weren't, it wouldn't be worth a light
anyway. I also have 'chapter one' of an attempted PhD gathering dust on an
ancient shelf somewhere, but found an EdD, some years later, to be a very
different, stimulating and valuable experience. I did the IoE degree that
Gwen mentions and loved it, although there were some of our group who fell
by the wayside, for sure. You can never guarantee that life or
disillusionment won't get in the way of a successful outcome. However, I
found that the community of support over the first two years in the taught
phase got me to the point where I was much better prepared for the lonelier
phase that follows, and that certainly helped me follow through. And the
community was still there throughout, in the background. It still is, in
fact, although it's shrunk to a handful of people now, but they remain very
valuable to me.
My motivation (and everyone is different, of course) was first, to do
something I wanted to do (as simple as that, though I kept it quiet to start
with); second, to increase my professional capability and confidence (it
worked very well, I must say, and this was my 'official' motivation); and
third (and least), to avoid those excruciating moments in meetings in
pompous ivory towers where everyone realises there's someone in the room who
actually isn't a "Dr.", and they all pause for a moment and shuffle their
papers awkwardly! But when I look back, it's the first reason that really
counts. If you want to do it, perhaps you should!
With best wishes,
Charles
Charles Neame
The Glasgow School of Art
Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Tel: 0141 353 4560
www.gsa.ac.uk<http://www.gsa.ac.uk>
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf
Of Debra Boyask
Sent: 14 February 2012 15:53
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean]
Hello Gwen (et al)
I have a question for people who have completed, or are at the dissertation
stage, of an EdD. Having started a PhD twenty years ago which got left on
the shelf when I took up full time work outside of academia for a few years,
I've felt reluctant to try again until I'm absolutely sure I'm motivated to
complete what I start. The EdD is obviously one option, but I'm wondering
how much it would help me really. I'm sure there's a community of support
and encouragement while engaged in the taught section, but how does it work
beyond that?
Best wishes
Debra
Debra Boyask, Educational Developer
Faculty of Environment & Technology
University of the West of England
Phone 0117 3283211
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf
Of Gina Wisker
Sent: 14 February 2012 15:45
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....
This is a great advert for prof docs Gwen! they and EdDs can provide the
community which lone PhDs often fail to offer, and so increase both your
chances of completing, and your chances of making long lasting links with
others. Colleagues who like looking into some of the research behind
doctoral experiences might like to look at the HEA funded NTFS project we
completed at Brighton and Anglia on' doctoral learning journeys' (2007-2010)
and the shorter piece in Educational doctorates for ESCalate, 'troublesome
encounters'(2011) at Brighton, Durham and Strathclyde which looks at the
necessary emotional resilience... both reports on the heacademy website .
Happy to send on extracts - anything else related -
all best Gina
________________________________
From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association
[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Gwen M. van der Velden
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 14 February 2012 15:25
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....
Dear colleagues,
If you ever considered doing a doctorate and didn't get round to it 'first
time' (like me), then maybe you're interested in a professional doctorate
like the one I am taking at the moment. If not, I am sorry to have filled up
your mailbox.
Mine is a research doctorate in International Higher Education Management,
offered at the University of Bath (yes, that's my own institution, but I'm
no less critical, not to worry). In brief, it consists of four residentials
in the first phase, each with their own research assignment to follow and
then a full thesis, just like you would produce for a PhD. The big advantage
of not going for the individual PhD route, but taking this type of doctorate
is that you meet a group of fellow students from universities all over the
world, and you build up a study network that keeps you going, inspires you
and challenges you to do better than you thought you could. But you also
learn how to write at publication level, even before you start on your
thesis. By the time you start, you should be well prepared for 'the real
thing'. Your fourth assignment is your research methodology and so you will
have lots of help and assurances on that aspect before you start collecting
data.
In my case, I am now a year an a half into the programme. Working on
finalising assignment three, I have just had my first assignment accepted
for publication in an international journal (Higher Education Quarterly).
The wider research and reading I've done so far on student engagement and
organisational cultures has also helped inform the talks and seminars I am
giving in a few universities and at conferences, and the stronger research
underpinning is well received. I have also made professional and personal
friends in countries across the world and this has led to new insights into
how universities could be organised that I would never have had otherwise.
Incredibly useful for my day to day work. In my year group there are 22 HE
managers studying on the programme, from 19 different countries. And that is
not unusual, it seems. The whole experience so far, has been 'brain candy'
as one of my Canadian fellow students descries it. This Saturday, five of us
met online to catch up on our study progress, and this is how we all keep on
track with our studies.
I am not writing this out of any other interest than encouraging perhaps
just one or two of you, to give a doctorate a go, no matter where you are in
your career. I can honestly say, it is absolutely worth it. To be fair, you
may also want to have a look at alternatives, such as the Doctorate at the
Institute of Education which I know some colleagues are also quite happy
with. I guess there are others as well, but I'm afraid I like the Bath one
so much, I didn't look that far! If you are interested, have a look at the
brochure the programme team has just released:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/management/dba/ .
Also, feel free to drop me a line if you want to hear more about my own
experiences, or talk to me at any next event we might both be at, but keep
in mind, I'm still going, who knows what I'll say when I reach the other end
of the course?
Best wishes,
Gwen van der Velden
Director of Learning and Teaching Enhancement
Learning and Teaching Enhancement Office
Wessex House 5.38
University of Bath
Claverton Down
Bath BA2 7AY
t: 01225 383775
m: 07891 790105
e: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w:
www.bath.ac.uk/learningandteaching<http://www.bath.ac.uk/learningandteaching
>
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