Is this issue further exacerbated with respect to how close or distant
Learning Development is to the institution's
Academic/Teaching/Professional Development Unit?
Here at London Met Learning Development was disaggregated from the
Centre for Academic & Professional Development (CAPD) some four years
ago. We do strive to work collaboratively, but it flows against the tide
of institutions that like thinks cut & dried - with clear lines of
responsibility and transparent ownership of activities that lead, say,
to the CPD of academic staff.
Fortunately early on we had a Director of Learning & Teaching (now left)
that brought CAPD and Learning Development together with Departmental
Learning & Teaching Facilitators in a Learning & Teaching Forum ... but
even so there is a de facto assumption that 'You work with students, we
work with staff' - whilst a feedback loop of mutual involvement and
communication would appear to be the best way forward.
Best,
Sandra
Lynne Rutter wrote:
> Thanks Maggie and John
>
> The issue is obviously exacerbated by the fact that we all have such
> different roles and titles etc, and this may affect our primary
> resposnibility (as it is seen by others)- i.e. to educate students or
> staff? I have a similar difficulty trying to define what 'reflection' or
> 'learning' is, as it can be different things to different people at
> different times - but in order to use it I really need to do is focus on
> what it can do - which helps move things on. So maybe we can also ask
> what are we trying to achieve rather than what we are trying to be.
>
> If we focus on something like 'changing teaching practices', it is
> obviously a major undertaking so maybe we can start by learning from the
> past and ask how are/when are teaching practices actually changed?
>
> In this respect it seems that we can also be thinking about what a
> lecturer's questions might be, to inform our approaches, e.g. how much
> extra work will this new approach mean for me? Why should I redesign all
> my teaching? Why should I be doing this when we have a funded support
> centre to do it? I'm sure we've all heard more!
>
> My colleague, Christine Keenan, advocates working with any lecturing
> staff who approach us and get them inolved in working with us in the
> ways described below, and on funded projects together if possible. If
> they then talk to colleagues and get them interested the ideas seem to
> disseminate more effectively than us 'banging the drum' all the time.
>
> As we know, getting involved with any teaching and learning events
> (conferences, PGCE's, symposiums etc) is obviously a 'must' for
> engaging with lecturing staff as this is where the conversations will be
> happening anyway (hopefully). Maybe there other places where these
> conversations are happening - can we find them and become part of them?
>
> But is it also a case of ensuring that we are seen and listened to as
> 'academics' - can we discuss education issues as 'academics', are we
> credible? If not what are we lacking or seen to lack?
>
> I may be going down inappropriate paths here but you did ask for more
> questions! ;)
>
> Lynne
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: learning development in higher education network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Maggie Boyle
> Sent: 08 May 2006 14:08
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: just google it! NO, scholar.google it???
>
>
> Hi All
>
> Thanks to Len, Lynn and John for their considered postings. I was very
> worried last thing on Friday afternoon that I had created an 'us and
> them' situation. The 'we' of John - those of us that engage with the
> development of the individual and the 'them' who teach the subject
> discipline that don't yet seem to use the kind of methods we are talking
> about. Was I creating a deficit model about academic staff that Len
> wants us to avoid with students? Lynne describes the kind of good
> practice that I see here at Leeds and hear of elsewhere.
>
> I want to reiterate the question John asks:
> 'BUT many of our colleagues - teachers, course, module, programme
> leaders, assessment designers etc - are NOT part of this 'we' - for a
> variety of reasons ... what can 'we' do about that?'
>
> I see myself not only in the role of supporting learning directly with
> students; I also work with staff in developing approaches to learning
> support. I know when it 'feels ok' and when it doesn't. It feels wrong
> when I am asked to 'do a workshop' on writing etc, where the lecturer
> absents him/herself during the workshop, wants the input at the start of
> the course, doesn't really engage with me about the problems the
> students might be having and doesn't put in the necessary time to
> discuss how the teaching may be made relevant to the assessed work the
> students are being asked to do. This interaction is usually followed up
> by a request the following year to 'run the session again'.
>
> It 'feels ok' when I have a conversation that involves discussing what
> are the problems that students on that course have, how we can design a
> relevant piece of learning, usually as group work that is debriefed,
> that draws on practices in the subject discipline and how we are going
> to team teach it. This is usually followed by the member staff member
> doing it for themselves next year.
>
> On reflection I feel that given that I have many conversations of both
> sorts, it isn't that I can't manage the conversation to the 'right'
> outcome. I come to the conclusion that it is the 'teaching practice
> approach' of the other person (to borrow Len's metaphor and adapt it to
> this context). Often the person I am having the conversation with is
> under a lot of time pressure.
>
> So let me have a go at rephrasing John's and my original question about
> how do we engage with academics. How can we discuss a teaching practice
> approach that seems not to be universally understood/adopted? How do we
> go about doing for academics what Len is proposing we do for students -
> discuss what a teacher does in HE and why?
>
> To do this we have to clarify the roles we are willing to play because
> they deliver good learning. As exemplified by Lynne, the good learning
> happens when the roles we are prepared to play are about collaboration,
> sharing good practice, researching our impact, and being advocates for
> education rather than transmission of knowledge.
>
> Do we somehow need to set some sort of rules of engagement? What would
> these be? How would we define our identities in HE?
>
> Any other questions we should be asking ourselves?
>
> Maggie
> Maggie Boyle
> Head of Skills Centre
> Skills Centre
> 15 Blenheim Terrace
> University of Leeds
> LS2 9JT
> 0113 343 5306
> www.leeds.ac.uk/skillscentre
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: learning development in higher education network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Hilsdon
> Sent: 08 May 2006 12:25
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: just google it! NO, scholar.google it???
>
> Hi Len and All
>
> I am very supportive of the ideas Len put forward in response to the
> message I sent last Friday.
>
> (Len Holmes wrote: ... if we stop asking students to write **as a
> student**, and **to** us as teachers, then we might start asking them to
> write **as** ....scholars? practitioners in a particular field? Let's
> stop asking students to write 'essays' (like wot they wrote at school,
> thereby evoking school-pupil identity and behaviour). Let's ask them to
> write **academic papers**, as writing an article for an academic journal
> - like researcher/ scholar would. That would begin to evoke some sense
> of the kind of identity to which they might aspire as a graduate.)
>
> ... and yes, Len, I think this IS kind of thing that we at UoP in
> Learning Development, and that some colleagues in other Universities in
> similar roles, actually do when we work with students. But this kind of
> approach is still not particularly common. My response therefore is to
> question or problematise the 'we' in Len's posting.
>
> Regarding the 'we' of learning developers and academics who agree - to
> the extent that this 'we' exists, I think we explore with students those
> aspects of writing which are largely social practices, and try to unpack
> them - and 'we' believe this is the best way to proceed in developing
> learning! We encourage students to examine, practise and question the
> roles of researcher, writer, reader, critic etc ... we attempt to
> demystify these roles and the associated conventional and 'good'
> practices.
>
> BUT many of our colleagues - teachers, course, module, programme
> leaders, assessment designers etc - are NOT part of this 'we' - for a
> variety of reasons ... what can 'we' do about that?
>
> AND, Len, although I broadly agree with you - isn't there also something
> good, legitimate, useful, important, necessary about the role (subject
> position) of 'student' - whilst still pursuing the line you promote,
> that students should see themselves as already practitioners in their
> field, not as existing in some parallel universe, as a 'mere' student
> ... some vague, context-free, 'pre' reality ....?
>
> John
>
> John Hilsdon
> Co-ordinator, Learning Development
> University of Plymouth
> Drake Circus
> Plymouth
> PL4 8AA
>
> 01752 232276
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/learn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard Holmes [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 05 May 2006 16:00
> To: John Hilsdon; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: just google it! NO, scholar.google it???
>
> John and colleagues
>
> back to the referencing issue?
>
> you ask:
>
>>(How) Can this scramble to get assignments to fit academic
>
> conventions
>
>>for reasons of form alone ("so it's all proper in your references") or
>
>
>>to get a tick in a box ("he said you have to be critical, didn't he?")
>
>
>>be converted somehow into creative work that serves more
>
> serious
>
>>learning and study activities?
>
>
> If we stop asking students to write **as a student**, and **to** us
> as teachers, then we might start asking them to write **as**
> ....scholars? practitioners in a particular field?
> Let's stop asking students to write 'essays' (like wot they wrote at
> school, thereby evoking school-pupil identity and behaviour). Let's
> ask them to write **academic papers**, as writing an article for an
> academic journal - like a researcher/ scholar would. That would
> begin to evoke some sense of the kind of identity to which they
> might aspire as a graduate. They then need to become familiar with
> the practices appropriate to such an identity, and familiar with what
> is involved in the production of text that meets the expectations of
> editors, reviewers and readers of academic journals. Those
> expectation include appropriate citation and referencing.
>
> As they do this, they would also become more familiarised with
> academic literature, with the genres, style(s), conventions, flow and
> rhythmns, etc. Through this, the textual artefacts of academic
> knowledge production processes become demystified.
>
> Of course, we may also want then to engage in the practices in
> other arenas, eg of a particular occupational field. So we may want
> them to, eg, write a report - not just 'in report form' but **to** a
> particular audience, **from** a particular position.
>
> Above all, it's a question of rehearsal of identity through
> engagement in appropriate practices (cf the Lave and Wenger view
> on situated learning **as** [not **through**] legitimate periheral
> participation. Allied to that is that assessment involves us
> (teachers/ assessors) deciding to what extent we would warrant
> the students (usually implicit) claim to be worthy of the qualification
> to which they aspire, and thus to the goods that are normally
> associated (good job, good career, entry to advanced study,
> respect).
>
> As for Google, we should encourage students to use Google
> Scholar, and to follow up citations of particular texts, as well as
> other electronic facilities for searching scholarly literature.
>
> On citation: students should cite **original** sources even when
> they have discovered there existence through other sources,
> whether textbooks or the web. It's the original author's ideas and
> argument that the student is citing, not the fact that another writer
> cites them.
>
> nearly home time.
>
> regards
>
> Len
>
>
>
> On 5 May 2006, at 15:33, John Hilsdon wrote:
>
>
>>Dear All
>>
>>
>>
>>I'm working at our Exmouth campus today, where despite the gorgeous
>>weather, Education Studies students are frantically completing
>>assignments for imminent deadlines. Have just been for a coffee and
>>overheard parts of a conversation including the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-- -------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>...but I still need to find a criticism of x - he said you have to be
>>critical, didn't he?
>>
>>
>>
>>So just Google it - put in something like criticisms of x - I'll be
>>you'll get something if you put the book title in too
>>
>>
>>
>>Yeah but I got told a Google reference was no good
>>
>>
>>
>>You don't reference Google you ****** !
>>
>>
>>
>>Yeah but it's still an internet reference - they don't like that, do
>>they
>>
>>
>>
>>You don't say it's from the internet do you ... you just find out the
>>thing it was published in and copy that - so it's all proper in your
>>references ...
>>
>>
>>
>>Take you about ten minutes, mate - honest!
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-- --------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>Have a stack of urgent stuff but couldn't resist relaying this!
>>
>>
>>
>>Some of the things that went through my head - in no particular order:
>>
>>
>>
>>So what? Should we worry?
>>
>>
>>
>>Is it just a 'game' being played here - if so, is it being played
>>well?
>>
>>
>>
>>Wouldn't I be doing things the same way if I were a student today
>>(especially with a deadline to meet)?
>>
>>
>>
>>Whose 'fault' is it that students do things/see things this way at
>>university?
>>
>>
>>
>>Does the growing awareness of the rules of the 'game' these students
>>display contribute/substitute in any way for good academic practice in
>
>
>>reading and referring to relevant sources?
>>
>>
>>
>>Is discouragement of the use of Google in such circumstances just
>>snobbery?
>>
>>
>>
>>(How) Can this scramble to get assignments to fit academic conventions
>
>
>>for reasons of form alone ("so it's all proper in your references") or
>
>
>>to get a tick in a box ("he said you have to be critical, didn't he?")
>
>
>>be converted somehow into creative work that serves more serious
>>learning and study activities?
>>
>>
>>
>>Might the activity suggested in the conversation lead to some genuine
>>study reading/research if the topic is interesting enough and the
>>student decides to follow it up later?
>>
>>
>>
>>Anyway ... back to the 'urgent' stuff!
>>
>>John Hilsdon
>>Co-ordinator, Learning Development
>>Educational Development
>>University of Plymouth
>>Drake Circus
>>Plymouth
>>PL4 8AA
>>
>>01752 232276
>>[log in to unmask]
>>www.plymouth.ac.uk/learn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Dr Leonard Holmes
> Principal Lecturer in Human Resource Management
> Manager of Postgraduate Programmes in HRM
> Luton Business School, Putteridge Bury Campus,
> Hitchin Road, Luton LU2 8LE
> tel. 01582 743111 ext 5014
> email [log in to unmask]
> websites: http://www.re-skill.org.uk
> http://www.odysseygroup.org.uk
>
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
> websites: www.re-skill.org.uk
> www.odysseygroup.org.uk
>
--
Sandra Sinfield
Co-ordinator (North) Learning Development
LC213, Learning Centre
London Metropolitan University
Holloway Road
London N7 6PP
020.7133.4045
|