Dear colleagues,
I think in addition to Anne's point about limited facilities for disabled people is the point that trans people are not gender neutral! While using facilities not specific to their adopted gender may be an acceptable compromise for some trans people, I can't imagine that it would be for all. In some circumstances it may even have the effect of making the trans person feel excluded from using the facilities appropriate to their birth and adopted genders.
In 2008 there was a relevant incident at London Pride described here http://www.transatpride.org/TransAtPride/Transphobia.html with background on the organisers' policy and what went wrong.
Best wishes
Adam
------------------------------------------------
Adam Jones
Equality & Diversity
Newcastle University
e: [log in to unmask]
t: +44 (0)191 222 8794
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/diversity
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:ADMIN-
>[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anne Mwangi
>Sent: 14 September 2009 12:18
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: gender neutral facilities
>
>Dear colleagues,
>A bit more thought needs to be given to the issue. Accessible toilets
>are normally very few in any building (bit like Parking spaces allocated
>for disabled people). Disabled people have limited choice as sometimes
>there is none or just one in some storey buildings. The fact that
>disabled people are unable to get into them when needed is one of the
>reasons RADER issues keys.
> I think where the cultural shift is needed is for every one to learn to
>use the same toilets as trans people. I wouldn't advocate universal use
>of 'disabled toilets' by everybody until we got to a stage where all
>toilets were designed to be used by every one. We have some way to go
>yet.
>
>Regards
>Anne
>
>
>They are designed to be accessible to people with mobility difficulties,
>who are unable to access other toilets which are usually plenty in
>comparison. I couldn't justify everyone using accessible toilets w
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:ADMIN-
>[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah Viney
>Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 4:28 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: gender neutral facilities
>
>Personally I have always taken the view that an accessible toilet was
>intended to be "universally designed" - which means usable by everyone!
>As long as it does not reach the point where wheelchair users are
>queuing for ages to use the facilities, why should other people not use
>the accessible toilets if they are the most convenient? (excuse the
>pun) Apart from anything else, a person's hidden disability might
>include the need for fast access to a toilet...
>
>regards, Deb
>
>
>2009/9/11 Christine Nightingale <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> Hello Debs
>
> I also seem to remember that the decision was to reduce adverse
>impacts on trans-gendered people. I take David's point about the impact
>on other cultural issues too.
>
>
>
> I also remember hearing a discussion about accessible toilets
>being gender neutral. However I have read today an article in the
>Newstatesman (http://www.newstatesman.com/2009/08/accessible-toilet-
>hoist-loo ) which among other things refers to keeping 'able-bodied'
>people out of 'accessible toilets' . I know this is a slightly different
>thread but I would be interested in people's reactions to this.
>
>
>
> As far as I am aware we have had only one gender neutral facility.
>But because of design issues in a very small space there was a privacy
>issue and it very quickly got converted to a women's' facility.
>The men on that floor of the building now use the accessible toilet -
>but see my query above!
>
>
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Christine
>
>
>
> Dr Christine Nightingale,
>
> Equality and Diversity Adviser,
>
> De Montfort University,
>
> 1.4 Eric Wood Building
>
> The Gateway,
>
> Leicester.
>
> LE1 9BH
>
> 0116 2506436
>
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:ADMIN-
>[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah Viney
> Sent: 11 September 2009 14:56
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Subject: Re: gender neutral facilities
>
>
>
> thanks David
>
> as far as I remember the other University's decision was somehow
>related to violence against trans people and transphobia, so I think it
>may depend on whether that particular issue has come up too....
> regards, Deb
>
> 2009/9/11 David Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
> I am not sure that we have a policy on this - BUT - I think I'd
>struggle to see any benefit in instituting such a policy - a straw poll
>of female colleagues around me at the moment confirms they'd prefer to
>maintain a separation for a range of reasons - whilst recognising that
>in particular situations (a small cafe bar might only have a unisex
>toilet) it might be appropriate. I'd guess that 'sharing' could perhaps
>raise some cultural issues a well as personal preferences.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:ADMIN-
>[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah Viney
> Sent: 11 September 2009 13:50
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: gender neutral facilities
>
> Dear all
>
> can I ask what position your institution is taking on the
>possibility of having gender neutral toilet facilities?
> Our Students' Union have apparently had a vote in favour and while
>I am waiting to find out more about their reasons for the request,
>I thought I would ask where other institutions stand on this. I
>vaguely remember that one Uni - maybe it was Manchester - decided to
>take this route a while ago, so if anyone can comment on how that has
>gone I would be interested to hear from you on list or direct at
>[log in to unmask]
> regards, Deb
>
> --
> Deb Viney, Diversity Advisor, SOAS
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> School of Oriental and African Studies
> (SOAS), Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London, WC1H 0XG tel:
>0207
> 898 4957 email: [log in to unmask]
>
>________________________________
>
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>
>
> --
> Deb Viney, Diversity Advisor, SOAS
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> School of Oriental and African Studies
> (SOAS), Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London, WC1H 0XG tel:
>0207
> 898 4957 email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>--
>Deb Viney, Diversity Advisor, SOAS
>---------------------------------------------------------
>School of Oriental and African Studies
>(SOAS), Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London, WC1H 0XG tel: 0207
>898 4957 email: [log in to unmask]
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