I find this group an excellent resource in a situation where one can often feel isolated. Given that I may be the only person not to have commented on toilet seats I found the whole discussion uplifting.
John H Ellwood
Moray College
Moray Street
ELGIN
IV30 1JJ
01343.576405
[log in to unmask]
>>> Pamela Graham <[log in to unmask]> 25/09/2008 10:53 >>>
Hi all
As a colleague of Julie who asked the question in the first place, I must support Abdul's reply. It also makes a change to have so many informative emails in reponse to a query.
Pamela
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brook, Maz
Sent: 25 September 2008 10:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
"How do you know some people didn't find Dipen's last email useful?"
Which reminds me - I do feel duty bound to point out that tampons don't have wings.
:-)
Maz
PS - as an estates professional, I have found the discussion extremely useful.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Abdul Wahab
Sent: 25 September 2008 09:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
Anne,
Not all topics on Jiscmail are going to be of interest to everyone. I certainly receive many emails through Jiscmail in which I have no interest.
But discussions cannot be tailored to individual preferences. I don't think it's up to any individual to decide whether a discussion has run it's course.
How do you know some people didn't find Dipen's last email useful?
Regards
Abdul
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anne Mwangi
Sent: 24 September 2008 15:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
Dear Colleagues, is it just me who thinks this discussion has run its course...?
Regards
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rajyaguru Dipen
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
In Asia and the far east, it is common practice to wash yourself with running water. Therefore, it may be seen as culturally insensitive if such facilities are not available. With regards to toilets, many people around the world find using 'toilet paper' and sitting on 'used' seats unhygenic and not environmentally friendly. The 'squatting ' method is apparently the most efficient way to defecate. As student I lived in a multicultural house and our toilet seat used to break as friends of mine refused to 'sit' on the toilet and preferred to squat on the seat, these seats were not designed for squatting. However, you can get toilets with 'wings' (rather like tampons!).
However, it may be worth noting the way we defecate sitting high upon a seat is something that we have been forced (socialised) to do and washing your backside with water is not only hygienic but environmentally friendly. I hope this helps.
Kind regards,
Dipen
Dipen Rajyaguru LL.B (Hons)
Health Equality & Diversity Specialist
Barnet PCT
020 8937 7709
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Abdul Wahab
Sent: 23 September 2008 15:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
That is what the original email seemed to suggest.
In Asia both types of toilets are available. A lot of people have a Western style toilet fitted to accommodate the needs of friends and relatives from abroad. So it wouldn't be too much to ask if we did the same. The hygiene issue is definitely true as having spoken to relatives they find it inconcievable that everyone is going to use the same seat. But I think it's pointless making suggestions without knowing what students actually want.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah Viney
Sent: 23 September 2008 14:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
some people believe that people who are used to squatting style toilets may stand on the seat and then squat - personally I doubt it, but I have heard it suggested.
It does make me think of another point though: I can imagine that those used to "squatters" might feel that western style toilets are unhygienic because you have to touch them, so it may be worth ensuring that seat cleaning spray and seat covers are made available.
regards, Deb
2008/9/23 Abdul Wahab <[log in to unmask]>
I'm confused about that too. The only way the seat would get broken is if
someone had stood on it (possibly to hide their drugs!). Unless students are
maliciously breaking toilet seats.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adam Jones
Sent: 23 September 2008 14:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
Hello,
Regarding the provision of ablution facilities for Muslim students and staff,
I'm wondering about the connection with damage to toilet seats.
Surely it would not be permissible to perform wudu with water from the
toilet? Nor would it be permissible to bring a container of water into the
cubicle.
Anyway, surely neither case would require standing on the toilet seat?
Best wishes
Adam
------------------------------------------------
Adam Jones
Equality & Diversity
Newcastle University
e: [log in to unmask]
t: +44 (0)191 222 8794
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/diversity
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of K HAYAT
>Sent: 23 September 2008 11:02
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Delicate Enquiry
>
>Hello Colleagues,
>
>You may wish to look at providing proper Ablution facilities for Muslim
>students and staff. It sounds like people are using the current
>toilets for washing and cleaning which is a key requirement for Muslims
>before they pray. Ramadan began in September and most Muslims are
>fasting until the end of September/Early October. Whilst fasting is
>taking place there is generally an increase in Prayers and this is why
>you are finding that the toilets are being used the way they are.
>
>The solution would be to provide adequate ablution facilities, I know
>other organisations who have made such requirements available. Further
>advice could be sought from Muslim students/staff on what the
>requirements are.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Kez Hayat
>Equality and Diversity Officer
>University of Bradford
>Tel: 01274 233076
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Bullimore
>Sent: 23 September 2008 09:44
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Delicate Enquiry
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>It's interesting the queries that come your way when you work in E&D.
>This is one I need to share but it is on a delicate subject so those of
>a less robust nature, please look away now.
>
>Last year we had to replace a huge number of toilet seats in one
>particular faculty. Over the summer all has been quiet, but last week,
>it started again. We believe the seats are being broken because of
>people standing on them when going to the toilet. Now I understand that
>the most likely explanation for this is that some of our overseas
>students will be used to a different type of toilet and find it
>difficult to use a western toilet.
>
>I'm sure that we can do simple things like put signs up asking people
>not to do it but my question is - have any of you come across this
>problem and have you made any adjustments such as changing some of your
>facilities to be more accommodating? I.e..
installing Asian or hole in
>the floor toilets? Or perhaps some other novel way of dealing with the
>issue.
>
>Any advice much appreciated.
>
>Julie
>
>Julie Bullimore
>Equality and Diversity Adviser
>Newcastle University
>[log in to unmask]
>0191 222 3440
>
--
Deb Viney, Diversity Advisor, SOAS
---------------------------------------------------------
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