Hi Alan
I am reading the poem over, will look at the link and am learning...
Thank you
On 2/2/07 7:42 PM, "A.D.M.Rayner" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Susie,
>
> Yes, that's exactly the point I was making: to 'see with feeling' it is
> necessary to perceive the 'space', not just the fixed frame perspective of
> the 'viewfinder' that leads to objectifiction. This is the essence of
> inclusional experience and what enables a crowd to flow by orienting with
> the ever transforming current (present shape of space) rather than
> dislocated 'objects'. When we're in objective, rationalistic 'see only'
> mode, we 'wrong foot one another' like calculating machines on collision
> course; when we're in 'see with feeling' mode we glide easily around one
> another. My friend Ted Lumley has written extensively about this: see
> www.goodshare.org. And my 'how pure eyesight can dislocate your knee'
> exercise is also intended to reveal it.
>
> Yes, we do in a sense have sixth and seventh senses - those that feel
> invisible 'gravity' and 'warmth', but they're not associated with explicit
> organs on the outside of our bodies (ears, eyes, nose, tongue, skin) and so
> get taken for granted, rather than being understood as vital to our
> inclusional 'proprioception' as Margarida Dolan attests - our sense of
> self-location in the gravitational and thermal (i.e. receptive spatial)
> field. They are also vital to our emotional experience of the loving
> presence of absence, pervading all, known to some as God, Holy Ghost,
> Brahman, Dao etc. When we know this presence, we no longer believe in 'the
> ghost in the machine', the internal executive that declares us to be
> independent from Nature, with our very own 'free will'. Neither do we
> believe in determinism.
>
>
> The poem below is about this.
>
>
> As Mohsen might put it, may you enjoy the warm pool of gravitational
> reception, where darkness is vital for our natural neighbourhood!
>
>
> Darkest warmth of heavenly laughter in which the Devil may come to care and
> be cared for,
>
>
> Alan
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> BEYOND OBJECTIFICTION
>
> You ask me who you are
> To tell a story you can live your life by
> A tail that has some point
> That you can see
> So that you no longer
> Have to feel so pointless
> Because what you see is what you get
> If you don't get the meaning of my silence
> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>
> You ask me for illumination
> To cast upon your sauce of doubt
> Regarding what your life is all about
> To find a reason for existence
> That separates the wrong
>> From righteous answer
> In order to cast absence out
> To some blue yonder
> Where what you see is what you get
> But you don't get the meaning of my darkness
> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>
> You look around the desolation
> Of a world your mined strips bare
> You ask of me in desperation
> How on Earth am I to care?
> I whisper to stop telling stories
> In abstract words and symbols
> About a solid block of land out there
> In which you make yourself a declaration
> Of independence from thin air
> Where what you see is what you get
> When you don't get the meaning of my present absence
> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>
> You ask of me with painful yearning
> To resolve your conflicts born of dislocation
>> From the context of an other world out where
> Your soul can wonder freely
> In the presence of no heir
> Where what you see is what you get
> When you don't get the meaning of my absent presence
> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>
> You ask me deeply and sincerely
> Where on Earth can you find healing
> Of the yawning gap between emotion
> And the logic setting time apart from motion
> In a space caught in a trap
> Where what you see is what you get
>
> And in a thrice your mind is reeling
> Aware at last of your reflection
> In a place that finds connection
> Where your inside becomes your outside
> Through a lacy curtain lining
> Of fire, light upon the water
>
> Now your longing for solution
> Resides within and beyond your grasp
> As the solvent for your solute
> Dissolves the illusion of your past
> And present future
>
> Now your heart begins to thunder
> Bursting hopeful with affection
> Of living light for loving darkness
> Because you ain't felt no thing yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan Goff <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 01 February 2007 21:47
> Subject: Re: "Feel that I know"
>
>
>> Thanks Alan - yes understand about seeing things as a whole - but I am
>> trying to understand something other than seeing (visually or cognitively)
>> for a moment, more like an embodied sense of "feeling" knowing - in the
>> moment of recognition that Jack identified.... It is very hard to put
>> accurately into words so please forgive me.... If I can dwell on this
> sense,
>> integrating it into seeing might come later. My hunch is that we depend
> too
>> much on "seeing" which has the cognitive result of turning everything into
>> an object and distancing us the observer unless we make a big effort to do
>> otherwise. Other felt senses of knowing, like feeling knowing, could mean
>> that we have a very different construction of self and our orientation in
>> the organic world. Susie
>>
>>
>> On 1/2/07 7:00 PM, "A.D.M.Rayner" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Susie and All,
>>>
>>> Welcome back into the stream, the water's lovely!
>>>
>>> Ah yes! But really to feel the stream, there is a need to view the
> picture
>>> as a hole.
>>>
>>>
>>> Warmest
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Susan Goff <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: 01 February 2007 00:58
>>> Subject: "Feel that I know"
>>>
>>>
>>>> "I look at the picture as a whole and feel that I 'know'
>>>> from personal experience the material context"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jack and everyone..
>>>> I just want to pay attention to this line that you wrote.
>>>>
>>>> I want to slow down, and explore what that "knowing" is. I don't think
> we
>>>> "know" enough about it and I think it is a potentially whole source of
>>> human
>>>> thought and ontology.
>>>>
>>>> When you say this, I connect with you, in understanding that sense of
>>>> recognition - of experience that is on the one hand completely unique
> and
>>> on
>>>> the other inalienable from all human experience, like a wondrous cosmic
>>>> tendril that winds through us, is of us and we make it what it is,
> across
>>>> all time and geography even though our cultures of knowing would lose
>>> sight
>>>> of this extraordinary human right of existence.
>>>>
>>>> I am reminded of Alan's beautiful reference to Wordsworth in his
>>> manuscript
>>>> which I am currently reading:
>>>>
>>>> "In nature everything is distinct, yet nothing defined into absolute
>>>> independent singleness"
>>>>
>>>> (Forgive me Alan for quoting your reference, I will be quoting you when
> I
>>> am
>>>> finished with the read!).
>>>>
>>>> So, in reference to this discussion about the power of images to
>>> communicate
>>>> knowledge, I wanted to dwell on knowledge not as information, but as
> this
>>>> living stream of a thing we call experience, and note how rich a pool
> that
>>>> is once we sense it "bodily" and culturally alive within and around
> us -
>>> and
>>>> to advocate for a significant turning towards understanding it and
> making
>>>> "it" the ground in which we are....
>>>>
>>>> Logically (instinctively), it is perhaps the most accurate form of
>>> knowledge
>>>> with which to sense the state of our ecology (sociological and
>>> environmental
>>>> etc etc) - and potentially the road back/towards being in nature again.
>>>>
>>>> Lovely to be in the stream with you guys again
>>>> Susie
>>>>
>>>> On 25/1/07 6:59 PM, "Jack Whitehead" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>
>>
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