Thanks Je kan... I will read with delight
S
On 6/2/07 7:56 PM, "Rev Je Kan Adler-Collins" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I just could not resist this, such fun: so what is knowing without
> knowing that is neither primary or secondary but the excluded middle
> space of illusionary sensory perception?..smile.
>
> Sue, the completed first draft is ready for downloading at my website,
> just click on the PhD review page. I hope you enjoy.
> http://www.living-action-research.org
>
>
> Quoting Susan Goff <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> Welcome back from the underworld Brian! I hope that your recovery is not too
>> painful and that the news is good when it comes through.
>>
>> Thank you for your questions... Can you tell us a story about your feel for
>> knowing?
>> What does the Old Testament insight mean in terms of secondary knowledge for
>> you? So for example, if you tell us a story about your feeling for knowing,
>> that will be secondary knowledge for us... With a primary moment of our
>> reading your text... Does this infer that all secondary information is not
>> "knowing" - what other thing is it then? (not arguing, just eager to make
>> this distinction). Are the checks and balances that you speak of to do with
>> quality in primary knowing?
>>
>> Is there something in Ted's and Alan's ideas about flow between primary and
>> secondary knowing that we can appreciate?
>>
>> Susie
>>
>>
>> On 5/2/07 8:51 PM, "Brian wakeman" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello again,
>>>
>>> Recovering well...sleeping, painting and reading!!
>>>
>>> I thought somebody might be interested in Smitz'
>>> comments that I have been reading:
>>>
>>> after summarising "know" in the ancient Hebrew text he
>>> says,
>>>
>>> "While the Greeks were concerned with detached
>>> knowledge and a speculative interest in the
>>> metaphysical nature of things , the Old Testament
>>> regards knowledge as something which continually
>>> arises from personal encounter"
>>>
>>> (see pp392-409 Dictionary of New Testament Theology
>>> Ed. Colin Brown Paternoster 1976)
>>>
>>> The questions of interest to me are:
>>>
>>> 1. In what ways do I know through personal
>>> encounter, and how do I take account of "Feel that I
>>> know", and 'know as personal encounter' in my
>>> practitioner research?
>>>
>>> 2. and how can I build-in checks and balances to take
>>> standards of quality seriously?
>>>
>>> in post-operative haze!
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Susan Goff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Alan
>>>> I am reading the poem over, will look at the link
>>>> and am learning...
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/2/07 7:42 PM, "A.D.M.Rayner"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Susie,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's exactly the point I was making: to
>>>> 'see with feeling' it is
>>>>> necessary to perceive the 'space', not just the
>>>> fixed frame perspective of
>>>>> the 'viewfinder' that leads to objectifiction.
>>>> This is the essence of
>>>>> inclusional experience and what enables a crowd to
>>>> flow by orienting with
>>>>> the ever transforming current (present shape of
>>>> space) rather than
>>>>> dislocated 'objects'. When we're in objective,
>>>> rationalistic 'see only'
>>>>> mode, we 'wrong foot one another' like calculating
>>>> machines on collision
>>>>> course; when we're in 'see with feeling' mode we
>>>> glide easily around one
>>>>> another. My friend Ted Lumley has written
>>>> extensively about this: see
>>>>> www.goodshare.org. And my 'how pure eyesight can
>>>> dislocate your knee'
>>>>> exercise is also intended to reveal it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we do in a sense have sixth and seventh
>>>> senses - those that feel
>>>>> invisible 'gravity' and 'warmth', but they're not
>>>> associated with explicit
>>>>> organs on the outside of our bodies (ears, eyes,
>>>> nose, tongue, skin) and so
>>>>> get taken for granted, rather than being
>>>> understood as vital to our
>>>>> inclusional 'proprioception' as Margarida Dolan
>>>> attests - our sense of
>>>>> self-location in the gravitational and thermal
>>>> (i.e. receptive spatial)
>>>>> field. They are also vital to our emotional
>>>> experience of the loving
>>>>> presence of absence, pervading all, known to some
>>>> as God, Holy Ghost,
>>>>> Brahman, Dao etc. When we know this presence, we
>>>> no longer believe in 'the
>>>>> ghost in the machine', the internal executive that
>>>> declares us to be
>>>>> independent from Nature, with our very own 'free
>>>> will'. Neither do we
>>>>> believe in determinism.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The poem below is about this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As Mohsen might put it, may you enjoy the warm
>>>> pool of gravitational
>>>>> reception, where darkness is vital for our natural
>>>> neighbourhood!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darkest warmth of heavenly laughter in which the
>>>> Devil may come to care and
>>>>> be cared for,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> BEYOND OBJECTIFICTION
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask me who you are
>>>>> To tell a story you can live your life by
>>>>> A tail that has some point
>>>>> That you can see
>>>>> So that you no longer
>>>>> Have to feel so pointless
>>>>> Because what you see is what you get
>>>>> If you don't get the meaning of my silence
>>>>> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask me for illumination
>>>>> To cast upon your sauce of doubt
>>>>> Regarding what your life is all about
>>>>> To find a reason for existence
>>>>> That separates the wrong
>>>>>> From righteous answer
>>>>> In order to cast absence out
>>>>> To some blue yonder
>>>>> Where what you see is what you get
>>>>> But you don't get the meaning of my darkness
>>>>> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>>>>>
>>>>> You look around the desolation
>>>>> Of a world your mined strips bare
>>>>> You ask of me in desperation
>>>>> How on Earth am I to care?
>>>>> I whisper to stop telling stories
>>>>> In abstract words and symbols
>>>>> About a solid block of land out there
>>>>> In which you make yourself a declaration
>>>>> Of independence from thin air
>>>>> Where what you see is what you get
>>>>> When you don't get the meaning of my present
>>>> absence
>>>>> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask of me with painful yearning
>>>>> To resolve your conflicts born of dislocation
>>>>>> From the context of an other world out where
>>>>> Your soul can wonder freely
>>>>> In the presence of no heir
>>>>> Where what you see is what you get
>>>>> When you don't get the meaning of my absent
>>>> presence
>>>>> Because you ain't seen nothing yet
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask me deeply and sincerely
>>>>> Where on Earth can you find healing
>>>>> Of the yawning gap between emotion
>>>>> And the logic setting time apart from motion
>>>>> In a space caught in a trap
>>>>> Where what you see is what you get
>>>>>
>>>>> And in a thrice your mind is reeling
>>>>> Aware at last of your reflection
>>>>> In a place that finds connection
>>>>> Where your inside becomes your outside
>>>>> Through a lacy curtain lining
>>>>> Of fire, light upon the water
>>>>>
>>>>> Now your longing for solution
>>>>> Resides within and beyond your grasp
>>>>> As the solvent for your solute
>>>>> Dissolves the illusion of your past
>>>>> And present future
>>>>>
>>>>> Now your heart begins to thunder
>>>>> Bursting hopeful with affection
>>>>> Of living light for loving darkness
>>>>> Because you ain't felt no thing yet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Susan Goff <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: 01 February 2007 21:47
>>>>> Subject: Re: "Feel that I know"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Alan - yes understand about seeing things
>>>> as a whole - but I am
>>>>>> trying to understand something other than seeing
>>>> (visually or cognitively)
>>>>>> for a moment, more like an embodied sense of
>>>> "feeling" knowing - in the
>>>>>> moment of recognition that Jack identified.... It
>>>> is very hard to put
>>>>>> accurately into words so please forgive me.... If
>>>> I can dwell on this
>>>>> sense,
>>>>>> integrating it into seeing might come later. My
>>>> hunch is that we depend
>>>>> too
>>>>>> much on "seeing" which has the cognitive result
>>>> of turning everything into
>>>>>> an object and distancing us the observer unless
>>>> we make a big effort to do
>>>>>> otherwise. Other felt senses of knowing, like
>>>> feeling knowing, could mean
>>>>>> that we have a very different construction of
>>>> self and our orientation in
>>>>>> the organic world. Susie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/2/07 7:00 PM, "A.D.M.Rayner"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Susie and All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Welcome back into the stream, the water's
>>>> lovely!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah yes! But really to feel the stream, there is
>>>> a need to view the
>>>>> picture
>>>>>>> as a hole.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warmest
>>>>
>>> === message truncated ===
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian E. Wakeman
>>> Education adviser
>>> Dunstable
>>> Beds
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> Rev Je Kan Adler-Collins
> Assistant Professor of Nursing
> Fukuoka Prefectural University Faculty of Nursing
> Tagawa City
> Fukuoka Prefecture
> Japan
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