I'd like to endorse Geds comments about the usefulness of this list but I
think the list owner should check with Jiscmail about their policy on
acceptable usage. As I understand it any use of the list for commercial
purposes is not acceptable.
We have to separate the two issues
1) We all know that there is to some degree a general lack of security of
email as a medium for communication. There are hackers out there and we can
never be sure who a colleague will pass a message on (but that is true of
pieces of paper too)
2) Some of us at least believed that the mailbase list was a relatively
secure environment in which we could share thoughts with colleagues without
fear of embarrassment or worst still exposure. This now proves not to be the
case and we don't really who is listening in.
I'm loath to suggest this because I'm a simple bloke who like simple
things but it looks increasingly as if we need two lists. One open,and one
closed.
If we carry on with an open list then I'd like to know who else is a list
member
It is disappointing though to find that the most heated debate we have had
in sometime focuses on the list members rather than the substance of
equality issues.
regards
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susanna Hancock" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
That's exaqctly what he has done. I don't mind who is a member, but I do
objecgtto a member of the list using information for Journalistic purposes.
The fact is that I wrote that email not knowing anybody on the listwould do
such a thing.
Susanna.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of G.Shire
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 4:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
I have just three points:
(i)A lot of people who have and need to be on this list work as
consultants offering advice, guidance and training to the sector and a wide
range of institutions. They may also be journalists - so a straight forward
'academic institution' membership will not do.
(ii)The value ridden maxims or so called neutral ideas that govern the
sector are not about equality and that is why the work is so often
creatively oppositional. Institutional inequalities are unwritten, embedded
and embodied - so we need as many allies as we can get working with us
within and outside of our institutions. (iii)If Phil Baty has gone ahead and
written a piece without checking and clearing with his source then that's
just plain bad journalism and nothing to do with the maintenance of the
list.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Susanna Hancock [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 August 2004 15:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Fiona, your usual excellent summing up of the issue, in my view.
Susanna.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fiona McLean (HR-UCL)
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Hi!
I think it is vital that Jiscmail members, know who is on the mailing list
and whether anyone can get access and be placed on it just for the asking?
Also without being too suspicious, when someone joins, how we know they are
who they say they are?! Can Michelle, the mailing list administrator, let us
know? (Thanks.)
Like many colleagues I do not consider myself to be naïve, but had not
given much thought to a network called 'HE administrators equal
opportunities list', including others, say interested journalists. Without
imputing the integrity of Mr. Baty, or his profession, a 'good story' is
hard to resist by a good journalist and I would not like our discussions to
be inhibited so we don't inadvertently provide 'good copy'.
If researchers, or others wish to canvass views, or elicit the expertise
of we HE EO operatives, surely they can ask Michelle to circulate something
on their behalf, without them necessarily being on the list?
Regards, Fiona
Equal Opportunities Co-ordinator,
90 Tottenham Court Road,
Tel:0207-679-9761 or Internal: 09761
BUT PLEASE NOTE: All mail should be addressed to:
F.McLean,
HR, UCL,
Gower Street,
London WC1E 6BT.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of GA Murray
Sent: 24 August 2004 14:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Dear All
I have found this list very useful as a reader than as a contributor &
would be disappointed if it lost its openness. I had no idea that
journalists were accessing the site & do think that must be stopped by going
to a closed position as suggested by Paul Marshall.
Having in a previous existence worked in the media (broadcasting rather
than print but the lack of ethics & search for story at all costs are if
anything even worse in print) I think it is extremely naive to think
journalists operate with any integrity or honesty to any particular
organisation. Journalist move papers that are ideologically opposed without
any problem. Perhaps after his latest scoop Mr Baty will get promoted to
NoW!
Ged Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Osmond end
Sent: 24 August 2004 13:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Phil Baty
> Hi all
It would be a shame for the list to become closed to people other than EO
practitioners - I, for one, would not be allowed to be part of it in that
case. I have found it very useful during the two staff equal opps projects
I have worked on and now I am investigating student retention in the
engineering school, the various threads about inclusion/potential exclusion
are very useful to me.
Perhaps a way forward is to discuss more sensitive matters 'off-list' with
particular colleagues?
Meanwhile, I would have thought it was in our interest to have Phil Baty
on-side - most educational journalists in my experience rarely want to harm
the sector they are reporting on, and indeed can become great allies in the
drive to improve standards.
Kind regards
Jane Osmond
Research Assistant
Coventry University
That's what I thought, Paul, but, clearly, I was mistaken.
>
> Susanna.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Marshall
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:48 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Times Higher
>
>
> Susanna, can I suggest that the list owner/ moderator should try to
> identify how this reported picked up on the thread of this discussion.
> This list is intended to be private. Jiscmail should be able to help
> preserve security.
>
> regards
>
> Paul
>
> l----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susanna Hancock" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:47 AM
> Subject: FW: Times Higher
>
>
> > Colleagues, as you will see from the attached, the mail
base
> is
> > not a place where we can have an open discussion of EO issues.
> >
> > Susanna.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Baty, Phil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:30 AM
> > To: Susanna Hancock
> > Subject: Times Higher
> >
> >
> > Susanna,
> >
> > As a courtesy, I wanted to let you know that I'd picked up on a
> thread
> > on a web discussion list where you expressed your discomfort about
> Mdx's
> > admissions policies.
> >
> > I'm making some enquiries to see if the university's policy is
> unfair/discriminatory or not.
> >
> > I hope this doesn't cause you too much embarrassment or
> difficulties with your colleagues at Mdx, but I'm sure you'll
> understand that its an
> > important issue of great public interest.
> >
> > If you have any further comments, don't hesitate to get back to
me.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phil Baty
> > Chief Reporter
> > The Times Higher Education Supplement
> > Phone: 020 7782 3298 (fax: 3300)
> > http://www.thes.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Newspaper Marketing Agency: Opening Up Newspapers:
> >
> > www.nmauk.co.uk
> >
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