I have just three points:
(i)A lot of people who have and need to be on this list work as consultants offering advice, guidance and training to the sector and a wide range of institutions. They may also be journalists - so a straight forward 'academic institution' membership will not do.
(ii)The value ridden maxims or so called neutral ideas that govern the sector are not about equality and that is why the work is so often creatively oppositional. Institutional inequalities are unwritten, embedded and embodied - so we need as many allies as we can get working with us within and outside of our institutions.
(iii)If Phil Baty has gone ahead and written a piece without checking and clearing with his source then that's just plain bad journalism and nothing to do with the maintenance of the list.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Susanna Hancock [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 August 2004 15:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Fiona, your usual excellent summing up of the issue, in my view.
Susanna.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fiona McLean (HR-UCL)
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Hi!
I think it is vital that Jiscmail members, know who is on the mailing list and whether anyone can get access and be placed on it just for the asking? Also without being too suspicious, when someone joins, how we know they are who they say they are?! Can Michelle, the mailing list administrator, let us know? (Thanks.)
Like many colleagues I do not consider myself to be naïve, but had not given much thought to a network called 'HE administrators equal opportunities list', including others, say interested journalists. Without imputing the integrity of Mr. Baty, or his profession, a 'good story' is hard to resist by a good journalist and I would not like our discussions to be inhibited so we don't inadvertently provide 'good copy'.
If researchers, or others wish to canvass views, or elicit the expertise of we HE EO operatives, surely they can ask Michelle to circulate something on their behalf, without them necessarily being on the list?
Regards, Fiona
Equal Opportunities Co-ordinator,
90 Tottenham Court Road,
Tel:0207-679-9761 or Internal: 09761
BUT PLEASE NOTE: All mail should be addressed to:
F.McLean,
HR, UCL,
Gower Street,
London WC1E 6BT.
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of GA Murray
Sent: 24 August 2004 14:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phil Baty
Dear All
I have found this list very useful as a reader than as a contributor & would be disappointed if it lost its openness. I had no idea that journalists were accessing the site & do think that must be stopped by going to a closed position as suggested by Paul Marshall.
Having in a previous existence worked in the media (broadcasting rather than print but the lack of ethics & search for story at all costs are if anything even worse in print) I think it is extremely naive to think journalists operate with any integrity or honesty to any particular organisation. Journalist move papers that are ideologically opposed without any problem. Perhaps after his latest scoop Mr Baty will get promoted to NoW!
Ged Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Osmond end
Sent: 24 August 2004 13:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Phil Baty
> Hi all
It would be a shame for the list to become closed to people other than EO practitioners - I, for one, would not be allowed to be part of it in that case. I have found it very useful during the two staff equal opps projects I have worked on and now I am investigating student retention in the engineering school, the various threads about inclusion/potential exclusion are very useful to me.
Perhaps a way forward is to discuss more sensitive matters 'off-list' with particular colleagues?
Meanwhile, I would have thought it was in our interest to have Phil Baty on-side - most educational journalists in my experience rarely want to harm the sector they are reporting on, and indeed can become great allies in the drive to improve standards.
Kind regards
Jane Osmond
Research Assistant
Coventry University
That's what I thought, Paul, but, clearly, I was mistaken.
>
> Susanna.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HE Administrators equal opportunities list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Marshall
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:48 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Times Higher
>
>
> Susanna, can I suggest that the list owner/ moderator should try to
> identify how this reported picked up on the thread of this discussion.
> This list is intended to be private. Jiscmail should be able to help
> preserve security.
>
> regards
>
> Paul
>
> l----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susanna Hancock" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:47 AM
> Subject: FW: Times Higher
>
>
> > Colleagues, as you will see from the attached, the mail
base
> is
> > not a place where we can have an open discussion of EO issues.
> >
> > Susanna.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Baty, Phil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:30 AM
> > To: Susanna Hancock
> > Subject: Times Higher
> >
> >
> > Susanna,
> >
> > As a courtesy, I wanted to let you know that I'd picked up on a
> thread
> > on a web discussion list where you expressed your discomfort about
> Mdx's
> > admissions policies.
> >
> > I'm making some enquiries to see if the university's policy is
> unfair/discriminatory or not.
> >
> > I hope this doesn't cause you too much embarrassment or
> difficulties with your colleagues at Mdx, but I'm sure you'll
> understand that its an
> > important issue of great public interest.
> >
> > If you have any further comments, don't hesitate to get back to
me.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phil Baty
> > Chief Reporter
> > The Times Higher Education Supplement
> > Phone: 020 7782 3298 (fax: 3300)
> > http://www.thes.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Newspaper Marketing Agency: Opening Up Newspapers:
> >
> > www.nmauk.co.uk
> >
> > This e-mail and all attachments are confidential and may be
> privileged.
> > If you have received this e-mail in error, notify the sender
> > immediately. Do not use, disseminate, store or copy it in any way.
> Statements or opinions in this e-mail or any attachment are those of
> the
> > author and are not necessarily agreed or authorised by News
> > International (NI). NI Group may monitor emails sent or received
> for operational or business reasons as permitted by law. NI Group
> accepts no
> > liability for viruses introduced by this e-mail or attachments.
> You should employ virus checking software. News International Limited,
> 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News
> International group and is registered in England No 81701
> >
|