Dear Alon
re. But, Sarah, I, think, I am fulfilling it and sharing my insights.
Yes - I think so too - don't understand your use of 'But'
re. And I hope you do your learning which is your thing.
Yes - me too!
re. The relevance is that we develop ourselves.
Thanks Alon - my intention is to try and assist others and myself to learn.
That's how I want to self-develop - as an educator nurturing courage to be
within my chosen role as a research mentor working alongside other teachers.
You have broadened my perspective by your writings on this list - thank you!
Signing off - kind regards
Sarah
http://www.TeacherResearch.net
Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> But, Sarah, I, think, I am fulfilling it and sharing my insights. And I
> hope you do your learning which is your thing.
>
> I am sharing it because I wish to promptly translate my heuristics into a
> manuscript, intended for public contribution as an extension of knowledge
> and possibilities in order to self-develop myself in my intending to become,
> transform myself into whom I want myself to become and be - a heuristics'
> constructor and not just a critical analyst (Serper, 1997, 1999). I am also
> currently saturated and exhausted from this Ontological self-study and the
> project and wish to regain my passion back. But this intentionality, why
> I do so, is my issue and concern. For you, I am giving you the different
> perspectives that you are interested, your intentionality.
>
> The intentionality is personal and irrelevant. The relevance is that we
> develop ourselves. I develop in my current issue of translating my
> heuristics
> and you, in getting different perspective.
>
> Alon
> >-- Original Message --
> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:22:07 +0100
> >Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >Dear Alon
> >
> >Much appreciating the emails from you -
> >
> >I am not asking you to train me - I am inviting you to share your insights
> >so I
> >might (take responsibility to) learn from what you write - and I agree about
> >the weather! I need to been able to make explicit for myself how I am
> learning
> >so I might improve it - by understanding how others learn (and I think that
> >is
> >a privilege to be allowed such insghts) I might improve how and what I
> learn.
> >
> >The drive I feel to understand processes of learning relates to drive to
> >teach
> >My values may not at all be superior to others but by teaching I offer
> choice
> >That's what I value when I read your emails - you present other
> perspectives.
> >I may decide I do not want to change by an act of my will - but I can
> choose.
> >
> >Kind regards
> >Sarah
> >--
> >Sarah Fletcher
> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >
> >
> >
> >Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> >
> >> But we are doing this. Aren't we?- Why discussing what we are doing.
> > I
> >> take it that this is what we are doing on this rainy, British, Saturday.
> >> This is like the passing the salt metaphore. Why explicitely defining
> >what
> >> we are doing? Why not just do it? I do not understand.
> >>
> >>
> >> >-- Original Message --
> >> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:13:51 +0100
> >> >Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I cannot tel you what to do with it how it should influence
> >> >you and your life and ontology.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks Alon
> >> >
> >> >I'm not asking you to do this. I'm asking you questions in the hope and
> >> the
> >> >intention of satisfying my drive (Maslow) to learn and in a way that
> I
> >might
> >> >learn from your learning. I'm not asking you to train me to use your
> >> learning.
> >> >
> >> >Kind regards
> >> >Sarah
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Sarah Fletcher
> >> >SL Mentoring and Induction, BSUC
> >> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >Tel. 01225 875875
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >
> >> >> And yes, I am doing this communication and work as and in the role
> of
> >> a
> >> >> heuristics'
> >> >> creator/constructor, illustrating and evaluating.
> >> >>
> >> >> As a clinician and therapist, I would interfere and make sure changes
> >> are
> >> >> being implemented. It would be in the contract. But as the advocator
> >> >of
> >> >> the heuristics, I cannot tel you what to do with it how it should
> >> influence
> >> >> you and your life and ontology. This would be a complete antithesis
> >to
> >> >the
> >> >> heuristics and the whole point of and for it. The heuristics is
> grounded
> >> >> on/in a unique individual being and the way he/she, me for that matter,
> >> >> self-contruct
> >> >> and self-develop his/her/my ontology.
> >> >>
> >> >> Alon
> >> >> >-- Original Message --
> >> >> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:24:29 +0100
> >> >> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >From: Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Hi Sarah
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What do I mean I am not interested, I am sharing the way I improve
> >my
> >> >life
> >> >> >with you and with others publicly. I am putting my personal ethics
> >> and
> >> >> >self-developing account of how I lead a better existence in the world
> >> >in
> >> >> >the public domain for others to engage with.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >This a significant question - the most significant one I think - how
> >> to
> >> >> lead
> >> >> >a gratifying existence of good quality - and we need all the help
> we
> >> can
> >> >> >get. There is nothing to be too pround about. So we are sharing
> it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is up to you to decide what to derive from it, to be influenced
> >or
> >> >to
> >> >> >think it is a total waste of time and complete nonesense for you.
> > I
> >> >think
> >> >> >this is what education all about, exposing information but not further
> >> >than
> >> >> >this. It is up to the exposed not the exposing to evaluate it and
> >absorb
> >> >> >or dismiss it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >For me, when the exposing agent goes further then putting his/her
> values
> >> >> >and account to the other publicly and start telling the exposed what
> >> to
> >> >> do
> >> >> >with it, then it becomes preaching, negative pedagogy, scholastics
> >and
> >> >being
> >> >> >pretentious. I am also influenced by Ionesco's La leçon.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Here is my account - do whatever you want with it. I am going no
> further
> >> >> >than this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Alon
> >> >> >>-- Original Message --
> >> >> >>Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:51:24 +0100
> >> >> >>Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >>From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >>Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>re. Alon's posting 30/07/05 All I need to do is convey my intended
> >> >> improvement,
> >> >> >>the way I intend to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss
> >> >how
> >> >> >>it is
> >> >> >>done, as a heuristics.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Hi Alon - thanks for responding - as a practitioner researcher on
> >this
> >> >> BERA
> >> >> >>list
> >> >> >>I am hoping to understand how I might learn from your research to
> >assist
> >> >> >>me as a
> >> >> >>teacher, mentor and researcher. I respect your work and your
> thinking.
> >> >> >>As I read your posting these questions come to mind. I hope you
> will
> >> >> respond.
> >> >> >>We seem to have very different ontological values; not a matter of
> >> >> right/wrong
> >> >> >>So you are not focused on anything other than communicating what
> you
> >> >> discover?
> >> >> >>You are not interested in how this might assist other to improve
> their
> >> >> lives?
> >> >> >>You don't have a moral imperative beyond that which immediately
> affects
> >> >> >you?
> >> >> >>Is there an evidential basis upon which you make claims in
> evolutionary
> >> >> >theory
> >> >> >>and how are you triangulating/validating outcomes of your ontological
> >> >> study?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I am trying to understand how your depiction of your ontology
> >> >> aligns/doesn't
> >> >> >>align with Harre's notion of the 3 selves which I find a very useful
> >> >> metaphor.
> >> >> >>One of the selves is constituted by how I am distinct from others,
> >> another
> >> >> >>by
> >> >> >>my own perspective of the world and a third by how I am perceived
> >by
> >> >> others.
> >> >> >>I would add a further perspective of role - my self changes according
> >> >to
> >> >> >>role.
> >> >> >>As a schoolteacher I am charged with being in loco parentis, as a
> >> >> researcher
> >> >> >>I
> >> >> >>seek to adhere to BERA's and Frankena's ethical guidelines and as
> >a
> >> mentor
> >> >> >>I
> >> >> >>align to Simon Riding's account of 'living myself through others.
> >I
> >> am
> >> >> looking
> >> >> >>to learn from you - as I perceive your research is intended to be
> >> >> educational?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Kind regards,
> >> >> >>Sarah
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Hi Sarah
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Luckily, my heuristics is based on my self-improvement and
> >> >> self-development
> >> >> >>> - evaluating and assessing my well-being, self-gratification,
> >> >> self-respect
> >> >> >>> and ontological security through looking at my self-disappointment,
> >> >> personal
> >> >> >>> non-gratification and malaise. As contributing fulfills me. As
> >the
> >> >> ethics
> >> >> >>> fulfills. As the exclusively aesthetic does not fulfil me as an
> >> >> ontological
> >> >> >>> essence. It can work as a valid contribution. I create this
> >> heuristics
> >> >> >>> as a means to conceive and study human existence as an ontologist
> >> and
> >> >> >>> constructing
> >> >> >>> crtical psychologist.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Luckily after a previous thesis in theoretical/Philosophical
> >> psychology
> >> >> >>and
> >> >> >>> Philosophy - I no longer need to looke at this type of philosophy
> >> >as
> >> >> >my
> >> >> >>> scope. All I need to do is convey my intended improvement, the
> >way
> >> >I
> >> >> >intend
> >> >> >>> to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss how it is done,
> >> >as
> >> >> >>a
> >> >> >>> heuristics.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Alon
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> >-- Original Message --
> >> >> >>> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:33:06 +0100
> >> >> >>> >Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >>> >From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >>> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >> >>> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Is the outside constituted by the inside of the outside - in
> addition
> >> >> >>to
> >> >> >>> >the
> >> >> >>> >interaction with the outside of others' insides? I am reflecting
> >> also
> >> >> >>on
> >> >> >>> >the
> >> >> >>> >notion of 'role', Alon, as I engage with interest in your writing
> >> >on
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >>> >list
> >> >> >>> >So if one adopts the role say of a researcher and also of a
> teacher
> >> >> where
> >> >> >>> >the
> >> >> >>> >ontological values may be quite different - is this one outside
> >of
> >> >one
> >> >> >>> inside
> >> >> >>> >or a multiplicitous outside and inside, which is elected (ie as
> >> roles)
> >> >> >>or
> >> >> >>> >not?
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >My doctoral thesis focuses on the tri-multiplicity of myself as
> >a
> >> >> >>> professional
> >> >> >>> >educator - as teacher, mentor and researcher and how my
> >> ownontological
> >> >> >>> values
> >> >> >>> >conflate but sometimes, apparently at least, contradict one
> another.
> >> >> >It
> >> >> >>> is
> >> >> >>> >a
> >> >> >>> >self-study action research account of how I have come to be a
> >> research
> >> >> >>> mentor.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Now if my outside as a multiplicitous educator is constituted
> by
> >> my
> >> >> inside
> >> >> >>> >as
> >> >> >>> >someone seeking to Nurture Courage to Be (after Tillich) and
> >> >> actualisation
> >> >> >>> >(after Maslow)is my outside not also constituted by my interaction
> >> >with
> >> >> >>> the
> >> >> >>> >outsides of the pupils, teacher researchers and others with whom
> >> I
> >> >do
> >> >> >>> research
> >> >> >>> >('with' is a more accurate description than saying others I do
> >> research
> >> >> >>> 'on')
> >> >> >>> >and thence by interaction with their insides which are manifested
> >> >as
> >> >> >>> outsides?
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >All this before breakfast on a Saturday morning!
> >> >> >>> >Have a good weekend everyone,
> >> >> >>> >Sarah
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >> The conclusions from my Ontological study is that the outside
> >is
> >> >in
> >> >> >>the
> >> >> >>> >> inside because the inside is all I have with no exist (huis
> clos).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>The
> >> >> >>> >> outside is because of the inside who is responsible for the
> >> outside.
> >> >> >>> It
> >> >> >>> >> is still me who is trying to go outside me to go inside. The
> >inside
> >> >> >>is
> >> >> >>> >> perhaps not enough but is all I have.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> The ouside reflects on my inside as the inside reflects on
> itself.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>But
> >> >> >>> >> the outside cannor reflect on itself. The inside cannot escape
> >> >> itself.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> Alon
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:09:55 +0100, Sarah Fletcher
> >> >> >>> >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> >Hi Alon -
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >I'm sure you know this. In case others aren't familar with
> it,
> >> >I
> >> >> thought
> >> >> >>> >> I'd
> >> >> >>> >> >send. I'd love to see Alon Rayner's depiction of this
> >> inside-outside
> >> >> >>> in
> >> >> >>> >> oils.
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >One is inside
> >> >> >>> >> >then outside what one has been inside
> >> >> >>> >> >One feels empty
> >> >> >>> >> >because there is nothing inside oneself
> >> >> >>> >> >One tries to get inside oneself
> >> >> >>> >> >that inside of the outside
> >> >> >>> >> >once one tries to get oneself inside what
> >> >> >>> >> >one is outside:
> >> >> >>> >> >to eat and to be eaten
> >> >> >>> >> >to have the outside inside and to be
> >> >> >>> >> >inside the outside
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >But this is not enough. One is trying to get
> >> >> >>> >> >the inside of what one is outside inside, and to
> >> >> >>> >> >get iside the outside. But one does not get
> >> >> >>> >> >inside the outside by getting the outside inside
> >> >> >>> >> >for;
> >> >> >>> >> >although one is full inside of the inside of the outside
> >> >> >>> >> >one is on the outside of one's own inside
> >> >> >>> >> >and by getting inside the outside
> >> >> >>> >> >while one is on the inside
> >> >> >>> >> >even the inside of the outside is outside
> >> >> >>> >> >and inside oneself there is still nothing
> >> >> >>> >> >There never has been anything else
> >> >> >>> >> >and there never will be
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >Laing, R.D. (1972) 'Knots' Harmondsworth, Penguin Books, p.
> >83
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >Thought for the week? Don't work too hard,
> >> >> >>> >> >Warm regards,
> >> >> >>> >> >Sarah
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >> And another quote from Laing - The Bird of Paradise
> >> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >> >>> >> >> if this I that is the wherewith and whereby is not anything
> >> that
> >> >> >>I
> >> >> >>> know,
> >> >> >>> >> >> then it is no thing - nothing.
> >> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> >> >>> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> >> >>> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >___________________________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> >> >Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> >> >Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> >> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> >> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
>
>
>
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