Dear Alon
Much appreciating the emails from you -
I am not asking you to train me - I am inviting you to share your insights so I
might (take responsibility to) learn from what you write - and I agree about
the weather! I need to been able to make explicit for myself how I am learning
so I might improve it - by understanding how others learn (and I think that is
a privilege to be allowed such insghts) I might improve how and what I learn.
The drive I feel to understand processes of learning relates to drive to teach
My values may not at all be superior to others but by teaching I offer choice
That's what I value when I read your emails - you present other perspectives.
I may decide I do not want to change by an act of my will - but I can choose.
Kind regards
Sarah
--
Sarah Fletcher
http://www.TeacherResearch.net
Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> But we are doing this. Aren't we?- Why discussing what we are doing. I
> take it that this is what we are doing on this rainy, British, Saturday.
> This is like the passing the salt metaphore. Why explicitely defining what
> we are doing? Why not just do it? I do not understand.
>
>
> >-- Original Message --
> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:13:51 +0100
> >Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >I cannot tel you what to do with it how it should influence
> >you and your life and ontology.
> >
> >Thanks Alon
> >
> >I'm not asking you to do this. I'm asking you questions in the hope and
> the
> >intention of satisfying my drive (Maslow) to learn and in a way that I might
> >learn from your learning. I'm not asking you to train me to use your
> learning.
> >
> >Kind regards
> >Sarah
> >
> >--
> >Sarah Fletcher
> >SL Mentoring and Induction, BSUC
> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >Tel. 01225 875875
> >
> >
> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >> And yes, I am doing this communication and work as and in the role of
> a
> >> heuristics'
> >> creator/constructor, illustrating and evaluating.
> >>
> >> As a clinician and therapist, I would interfere and make sure changes
> are
> >> being implemented. It would be in the contract. But as the advocator
> >of
> >> the heuristics, I cannot tel you what to do with it how it should
> influence
> >> you and your life and ontology. This would be a complete antithesis to
> >the
> >> heuristics and the whole point of and for it. The heuristics is grounded
> >> on/in a unique individual being and the way he/she, me for that matter,
> >> self-contruct
> >> and self-develop his/her/my ontology.
> >>
> >> Alon
> >> >-- Original Message --
> >> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:24:29 +0100
> >> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >From: Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hi Sarah
> >> >
> >> >What do I mean I am not interested, I am sharing the way I improve my
> >life
> >> >with you and with others publicly. I am putting my personal ethics
> and
> >> >self-developing account of how I lead a better existence in the world
> >in
> >> >the public domain for others to engage with.
> >> >
> >> >This a significant question - the most significant one I think - how
> to
> >> lead
> >> >a gratifying existence of good quality - and we need all the help we
> can
> >> >get. There is nothing to be too pround about. So we are sharing it.
> >> >
> >> > It is up to you to decide what to derive from it, to be influenced or
> >to
> >> >think it is a total waste of time and complete nonesense for you. I
> >think
> >> >this is what education all about, exposing information but not further
> >than
> >> >this. It is up to the exposed not the exposing to evaluate it and absorb
> >> >or dismiss it.
> >> >
> >> >For me, when the exposing agent goes further then putting his/her values
> >> >and account to the other publicly and start telling the exposed what
> to
> >> do
> >> >with it, then it becomes preaching, negative pedagogy, scholastics and
> >being
> >> >pretentious. I am also influenced by Ionesco's La leçon.
> >> >
> >> >Here is my account - do whatever you want with it. I am going no further
> >> >than this.
> >> >
> >> >Alon
> >> >>-- Original Message --
> >> >>Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:51:24 +0100
> >> >>Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >>From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >>Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>re. Alon's posting 30/07/05 All I need to do is convey my intended
> >> improvement,
> >> >>the way I intend to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss
> >how
> >> >>it is
> >> >>done, as a heuristics.
> >> >>
> >> >>Hi Alon - thanks for responding - as a practitioner researcher on this
> >> BERA
> >> >>list
> >> >>I am hoping to understand how I might learn from your research to assist
> >> >>me as a
> >> >>teacher, mentor and researcher. I respect your work and your thinking.
> >> >>As I read your posting these questions come to mind. I hope you will
> >> respond.
> >> >>We seem to have very different ontological values; not a matter of
> >> right/wrong
> >> >>So you are not focused on anything other than communicating what you
> >> discover?
> >> >>You are not interested in how this might assist other to improve their
> >> lives?
> >> >>You don't have a moral imperative beyond that which immediately affects
> >> >you?
> >> >>Is there an evidential basis upon which you make claims in evolutionary
> >> >theory
> >> >>and how are you triangulating/validating outcomes of your ontological
> >> study?
> >> >>
> >> >>I am trying to understand how your depiction of your ontology
> >> aligns/doesn't
> >> >>align with Harre's notion of the 3 selves which I find a very useful
> >> metaphor.
> >> >>One of the selves is constituted by how I am distinct from others,
> another
> >> >>by
> >> >>my own perspective of the world and a third by how I am perceived by
> >> others.
> >> >>I would add a further perspective of role - my self changes according
> >to
> >> >>role.
> >> >>As a schoolteacher I am charged with being in loco parentis, as a
> >> researcher
> >> >>I
> >> >>seek to adhere to BERA's and Frankena's ethical guidelines and as a
> mentor
> >> >>I
> >> >>align to Simon Riding's account of 'living myself through others. I
> am
> >> looking
> >> >>to learn from you - as I perceive your research is intended to be
> >> educational?
> >> >>
> >> >>Kind regards,
> >> >>Sarah
> >> >>
> >> >>http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Sarah
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Luckily, my heuristics is based on my self-improvement and
> >> self-development
> >> >>> - evaluating and assessing my well-being, self-gratification,
> >> self-respect
> >> >>> and ontological security through looking at my self-disappointment,
> >> personal
> >> >>> non-gratification and malaise. As contributing fulfills me. As the
> >> ethics
> >> >>> fulfills. As the exclusively aesthetic does not fulfil me as an
> >> ontological
> >> >>> essence. It can work as a valid contribution. I create this
> heuristics
> >> >>> as a means to conceive and study human existence as an ontologist
> and
> >> >>> constructing
> >> >>> crtical psychologist.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Luckily after a previous thesis in theoretical/Philosophical
> psychology
> >> >>and
> >> >>> Philosophy - I no longer need to looke at this type of philosophy
> >as
> >> >my
> >> >>> scope. All I need to do is convey my intended improvement, the way
> >I
> >> >intend
> >> >>> to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss how it is done,
> >as
> >> >>a
> >> >>> heuristics.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Alon
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >-- Original Message --
> >> >>> >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:33:06 +0100
> >> >>> >Reply-To: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >>> >From: Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >>> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >>> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Is the outside constituted by the inside of the outside - in addition
> >> >>to
> >> >>> >the
> >> >>> >interaction with the outside of others' insides? I am reflecting
> also
> >> >>on
> >> >>> >the
> >> >>> >notion of 'role', Alon, as I engage with interest in your writing
> >on
> >> >the
> >> >>> >list
> >> >>> >So if one adopts the role say of a researcher and also of a teacher
> >> where
> >> >>> >the
> >> >>> >ontological values may be quite different - is this one outside of
> >one
> >> >>> inside
> >> >>> >or a multiplicitous outside and inside, which is elected (ie as
> roles)
> >> >>or
> >> >>> >not?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >My doctoral thesis focuses on the tri-multiplicity of myself as a
> >> >>> professional
> >> >>> >educator - as teacher, mentor and researcher and how my
> ownontological
> >> >>> values
> >> >>> >conflate but sometimes, apparently at least, contradict one another.
> >> >It
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> >a
> >> >>> >self-study action research account of how I have come to be a
> research
> >> >>> mentor.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Now if my outside as a multiplicitous educator is constituted by
> my
> >> inside
> >> >>> >as
> >> >>> >someone seeking to Nurture Courage to Be (after Tillich) and
> >> actualisation
> >> >>> >(after Maslow)is my outside not also constituted by my interaction
> >with
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> >outsides of the pupils, teacher researchers and others with whom
> I
> >do
> >> >>> research
> >> >>> >('with' is a more accurate description than saying others I do
> research
> >> >>> 'on')
> >> >>> >and thence by interaction with their insides which are manifested
> >as
> >> >>> outsides?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >All this before breakfast on a Saturday morning!
> >> >>> >Have a good weekend everyone,
> >> >>> >Sarah
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> The conclusions from my Ontological study is that the outside is
> >in
> >> >>the
> >> >>> >> inside because the inside is all I have with no exist (huis clos).
> >> >
> >> >>The
> >> >>> >> outside is because of the inside who is responsible for the
> outside.
> >> >>> It
> >> >>> >> is still me who is trying to go outside me to go inside. The inside
> >> >>is
> >> >>> >> perhaps not enough but is all I have.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> The ouside reflects on my inside as the inside reflects on itself.
> >> >
> >> >>But
> >> >>> >> the outside cannor reflect on itself. The inside cannot escape
> >> itself.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Alon
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:09:55 +0100, Sarah Fletcher
> >> >>> >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> >Hi Alon -
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >I'm sure you know this. In case others aren't familar with it,
> >I
> >> thought
> >> >>> >> I'd
> >> >>> >> >send. I'd love to see Alon Rayner's depiction of this
> inside-outside
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> >> oils.
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >One is inside
> >> >>> >> >then outside what one has been inside
> >> >>> >> >One feels empty
> >> >>> >> >because there is nothing inside oneself
> >> >>> >> >One tries to get inside oneself
> >> >>> >> >that inside of the outside
> >> >>> >> >once one tries to get oneself inside what
> >> >>> >> >one is outside:
> >> >>> >> >to eat and to be eaten
> >> >>> >> >to have the outside inside and to be
> >> >>> >> >inside the outside
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >But this is not enough. One is trying to get
> >> >>> >> >the inside of what one is outside inside, and to
> >> >>> >> >get iside the outside. But one does not get
> >> >>> >> >inside the outside by getting the outside inside
> >> >>> >> >for;
> >> >>> >> >although one is full inside of the inside of the outside
> >> >>> >> >one is on the outside of one's own inside
> >> >>> >> >and by getting inside the outside
> >> >>> >> >while one is on the inside
> >> >>> >> >even the inside of the outside is outside
> >> >>> >> >and inside oneself there is still nothing
> >> >>> >> >There never has been anything else
> >> >>> >> >and there never will be
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >Laing, R.D. (1972) 'Knots' Harmondsworth, Penguin Books, p. 83
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >Thought for the week? Don't work too hard,
> >> >>> >> >Warm regards,
> >> >>> >> >Sarah
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >> And another quote from Laing - The Bird of Paradise
> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >>> >> >> if this I that is the wherewith and whereby is not anything
> that
> >> >>I
> >> >>> know,
> >> >>> >> >> then it is no thing - nothing.
> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> >>> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> >>> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >___________________________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> >Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> >Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> >> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
> >>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
>
>
>
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