Alon,
It is very interesting and illuminating for me to hear
you say this.
Kind regards
Brian
--- Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> And it is no use to hide and tell us we are
> westerners, or
> conservative, and therefore not likely to understand
> you. We are open
> minded and willing to learn. We would not be here
> if not. But we
> really need to understand you first. It is your job
> to have us
> understand you. Otherwise I can just blame English
> being my third
> language when people do not understand me. But no,
> it is my job to
> make sure I am clear. It is not the job of my
> audience.
>
> Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Jekan - We are your intended audience. You
> produce your narratives
> > (either visual or textual) for us and for our
> benefit. And if we do
> > not understand you then you have nothing. And if
> an educator who is as
> > patient, sympathetic and caring as Jack cannot
> comprehend and relate to
> > you then you are ought to reconsider and learn and
> embrace constructive
> > criticisms. Hiding behind words such as 'excluded
> middle', thinking we
> > will immediately repent and unfold, does not make
> us understand you
> > more.
> >
> > The intention of any narrative is the timely and
> rigorous ethical
> > contribution to the epistemology (knowledge/
> theory of knowledge) and
> > education of the writer/narrator's intended
> audience and those who are
> > engaging with it/him. Otherwise it is just a
> person amusing or talking
> > to himself/herself. And taking a lot of space in
> people's mailbox. Alon
> >
> >
> > Quoting Rev Je Kan Adler-Collins
> <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >> “Without such an understanding I doubt if many
> >> viewers of the video-clip would understand your
> values and commitment
> >> from just watching
> >> the video. But I may be mistaken and my doubt
> could be inappropriate.”
> >>
> >> Your response was not unexpected and in a way I
> am glad that you did
> >> respond as you have. It leads me to the issues
> that I am worried about
> >> concerning how we see and what we see. When I
> worked in my healing
> >> research with indigenous healers of different
> countries ( South
> >> America, Mexico, the first nation peoples, ) I
> did not know the history
> >> or the language other than what my culture had
> fed me. I had no terms
> >> of reference and no pre conceived ideas about
> what I would or should
> >> see/feel spiritually. The shaman, healers, priest
> and medicine men do
> >> not give formal teachings as they expect your
> spirit to teach you. In
> >> this way your questions, actions and insights,
> give a good indication
> >> to the teacher of you understandings and
> awareness. It is the same in
> >> Japan. In traditional Buddhist teachings very
> little formal teaching is
> >> given as it is for the individual to find there
> way towards,
> >> enlightenment. Each different sect of Buddhism
> has its own philosophy
> >> and thinking from which it builds it traditions
> and rituals. Over time
> >> these become formalized and the meanings of the
> original thinking that
> >> gave rise to the rituals are lost in the dogmatic
> teaching of the
> >> knowledge in the box.
> >>
> >> My concern with western forms of understand is
> the idea of immediacy
> >> and one where there is a knowledge giver and a
> knowledge receiver and
> >> that knowledge has to be within a set of pre set
> conditions and the
> >> context has to be known. This I feel is the main
> and crucial difference
> >> between the analytical, lets understand the box ,
> what the box is made
> >> of, how to use the box and what is in the box
> thinking and that of;
> >> well, lets see the space that the box has
> created in space and see
> >> what the box brings to both its internal and
> external space.
> >>
> >> I deliberately did not include a textual
> narrative as the idea was to
> >> give and insight to practice. I had hoped that
> such questions and
> >> observations would be evolve of the nature: what
> do I feel as I look?
> >> what do I hear as I listen? I wanted the visuals
> to be virgin as it
> >> were and then the questions that arise form
> engagement by inclusion
> >> would be the meeting ground to understand .For me
> I believe that you
> >> have set out the conditions you need in order to
> understand.
> >>
> >> I am different to you, with my understandings, I
> need no words as I
> >> give space to the space. In the ideas of Alan’s
> excluded middle I am
> >> comfortable with having no terms of reference
> other than thinkable and
> >> unthinkable. Brian talks of esoteric words and
> thinking and how to
> >> hold on to them. If you preset your viewing by
> context in the claim
> >> that it is the only way to understand Then from
> the very beginning you
> >> are not allowing your self to engage in a form of
> inclusional
> >> communication offered. If I use my understandings
> of my senses, with
> >> the idea that the only truth that has any
> relevance is that; I know
> >> there is much I do not know, I can expand the
> boundaries of my
> >> ignorance because they are fluid in their
> dynamics of conscious open
> >> enquiry. Often I have to unlearn how I have been
> taught to see and the
> >> blindness of expectations is shown for what it
> is, that of cultural
> >> conditioning.
> >>
> >> I took a risk in offering insights to my practice
> as a mountain
> >> Buddhist monk, knowing that many would have no
> terms of reference to
> >> understand its context. I had hoped that some
> would be able to identify
> >> the values even if they did not know the context.
> I am intrigued to
> >> know if love and compassion can communicate non
> textually across
> >> cultures. It seems so far that I have failed in
> that endeavor. smile.
> >> I hoped that it would stimulate some questions
> that would indicate a
> >> willingness to explore rather than set conditions
> under which the
> >> communication can take place. What interests me
> as I know through our
> >> friendship that we have on occasions been in
> different worlds, is that
> >> your ground breaking work will lead you to having
> to become more
> >> comfortable with having less control over your
> boundaries of learning
> >> within a space and allow the space to teach you
> by reflecting back to
> >> you.
> >>
> >> The most positive part of your response was that
> related to the
> >> technology, which is used to create the box in
> cyberspace. Rather than
> >> any engagement with what you felt about what you
> saw or did not see.
> >> Interesting stuff other peoples’ worlds.. smile.
> If I was the sensitive
> >> type of individual the silence to the posting
> could stop me trying
> >> again as the time and effort to create, edit,
> post the clip is
> >> considerable and the responses negligible.
> However I believe that it is
> >> part of my learning to understand myself through
> the reflections of
> >> others that continues and will continue to fuel
> my passion to
> >> communicate. What our dialogue is showing is the
> difficulty and
> >> complexity of forms and conditions of knowing.
> That is an exciting
>
=== message truncated ===
Brian E. Wakeman
Education adviser
Dunstable
Beds
|