Dear Alon,

Thank you for going this far - I understand now far more clearly than before.
We do operate from a different values base so I'm wary of any generalisations.

As a classroom teacher for over 20 years I tried deliberately not to stop at the
presentation of my knowldge. I tried to take a moral lead in presenting it in a
format that was likely to be accessible and accessed, retained and acted on by
children I taught.  I hear your question (other email) and I agree Why?
Should educational research necessarily be intended for other practitioners?

I assume you're a practitioner in the sense of 'practising a worthwhile life'
rather than a practitioner in the sense of being a member of any profession.
Is there an asepct of 'Practitioner' as in BERA-Practitioner_SIG in relation to
your own research that I'm not (yet) appreciating, if so please assist me.

Thanks for presenting your knowledge so I (and others) might reflect on it,
Sarah

http://www.TeacherResearch.net



Quoting [log in to unmask]:

> Hi Sarah
>
> What do I mean I am not interested, I am sharing the way I improve my life
> with you and with others publicly.   I am putting my personal ethics and
> self-developing account of how I lead a better existence in the world in
> the public domain for others to engage with.
>
> This a significant question - the most significant one I think - how to lead
> a gratifying existence of good quality - and we need all the help we can
> get.  There is nothing to be too pround about.  So we are sharing it.
>
>  It is up to you to decide what to derive from it, to be influenced or to
> think it is a total  waste of time and complete nonesense for you.  I think
> this is what education all about, exposing information but not further than
> this.  It is up to the exposed not the exposing to evaluate it and absorb
> or dismiss it.
>
> For me, when the exposing agent goes further then putting his/her values
> and account to the other publicly and start telling the exposed what to do
> with it, then it becomes preaching, negative pedagogy, scholastics and being
> pretentious.  I am also influenced by Ionesco's La leçon.
>
> Here is my account - do whatever you want with it.  I am going no further
> than this.
>
> Alon
> >-- Original Message --
> >Date:         Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:51:24 +0100
> >Reply-To:     Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >From:         Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >To:           [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >re. Alon's posting 30/07/05 All I need to do is convey my intended
> improvement,
> >the way I intend to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss how
> >it is
> >done, as a heuristics.
> >
> >Hi Alon - thanks for responding - as a practitioner researcher on this BERA
> >list
> >I am hoping to understand how I might learn from your research to assist
> >me as a
> >teacher, mentor and researcher. I respect your work and your thinking.
> >As I read your posting these questions come to mind.  I hope you will
> respond.
> >We seem to have very different ontological values; not a matter of
> right/wrong
> >So you are not focused on anything other than communicating what you
> discover?
> >You are not interested in how this might assist other to improve their
> lives?
> >You don't have a moral imperative beyond that which immediately affects
> you?
> >Is there an evidential basis upon which you make claims in evolutionary
> theory
> >and how are you triangulating/validating outcomes of your ontological study?
> >
> >I am trying to understand how your depiction of your ontology aligns/doesn't
> >align with Harre's notion of the 3 selves which I find a very useful
> metaphor.
> >One of the selves is constituted by how I am distinct from others, another
> >by
> >my own perspective of the world and a third by how I am perceived by others.
> >I would add a further perspective of role - my self changes according to
> >role.
> >As a schoolteacher I am charged with being in loco parentis, as a researcher
> >I
> >seek to adhere to BERA's and Frankena's ethical guidelines and as a mentor
> >I
> >align to Simon Riding's account of 'living myself through others. I am
> looking
> >to learn from you - as I perceive your research is intended to be
> educational?
> >
> >Kind regards,
> >Sarah
> >
> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >
> >
> >
> >Quoting [log in to unmask]:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Sarah
> >>
> >> Luckily, my heuristics is based on my self-improvement and
> self-development
> >> - evaluating and assessing my well-being, self-gratification, self-respect
> >> and ontological security through looking at my self-disappointment,
> personal
> >> non-gratification and malaise.  As contributing fulfills me.  As the
> ethics
> >> fulfills.  As the exclusively aesthetic does not fulfil me as an
> ontological
> >> essence.  It can work as a valid contribution.  I create this heuristics
> >> as a means to conceive and study human existence as an ontologist and
> >> constructing
> >> crtical psychologist.
> >>
> >> Luckily after a previous thesis in theoretical/Philosophical psychology
> >and
> >> Philosophy - I no longer need to looke at this type of  philosophy as
> my
> >> scope.  All I need to do is convey my intended improvement, the way I
> intend
> >> to improve my ontology, to carry it out and discuss how it is done, as
> >a
> >> heuristics.
> >>
> >> Alon
> >>
> >> >-- Original Message --
> >> >Date:         Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:33:06 +0100
> >> >Reply-To:     Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >From:         Sarah Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >Subject: Re: relevant laing on scientific evaluation
> >> >To:           [log in to unmask]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Is the outside constituted by the inside of the outside - in addition
> >to
> >> >the
> >> >interaction with the outside of others' insides? I am reflecting also
> >on
> >> >the
> >> >notion of 'role', Alon, as I engage with interest in your writing on
> the
> >> >list
> >> >So if one adopts the role say of a researcher and also of a teacher where
> >> >the
> >> >ontological values may be quite different - is this one outside of one
> >> inside
> >> >or a multiplicitous outside and inside, which is elected (ie as roles)
> >or
> >> >not?
> >> >
> >> >My doctoral thesis focuses on the tri-multiplicity of myself as a
> >> professional
> >> >educator - as teacher, mentor and researcher and how my ownontological
> >> values
> >> >conflate but sometimes, apparently at least, contradict one another.
> It
> >> is
> >> >a
> >> >self-study action research account of how I have come to be a research
> >> mentor.
> >> >
> >> >Now if my outside as a multiplicitous educator is constituted by my
> inside
> >> >as
> >> >someone seeking to Nurture Courage to Be (after Tillich) and
> actualisation
> >> >(after Maslow)is my outside not also constituted by my interaction with
> >> the
> >> >outsides of the pupils, teacher researchers and others with whom I do
> >> research
> >> >('with' is a more accurate description than saying others I do research
> >> 'on')
> >> >and thence by interaction with their insides which are manifested as
> >> outsides?
> >> >
> >> >All this before breakfast on a Saturday morning!
> >> >Have a good weekend everyone,
> >> >Sarah
> >> >
> >> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >
> >> >> The conclusions from my Ontological study is that the outside is in
> >the
> >> >> inside because the inside is all I have with no exist (huis clos).
>
> >The
> >> >> outside is because of the inside who is responsible for the outside.
> >> It
> >> >> is still me who is trying to go outside me to go inside. The inside
> >is
> >> >> perhaps not enough but is all I have.
> >> >>
> >> >> The ouside reflects on my inside as the inside reflects on itself.
>
> >But
> >> >> the outside cannor reflect on itself.  The inside cannot escape itself.
> >> >>
> >> >> Alon
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:09:55 +0100, Sarah Fletcher
> >> >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Hi Alon -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'm sure you know this. In case others aren't familar with it, I
> thought
> >> >> I'd
> >> >> >send. I'd love to see Alon Rayner's depiction of this inside-outside
> >> in
> >> >> oils.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >One is inside
> >> >> >then outside what one has been inside
> >> >> >One feels empty
> >> >> >because there is nothing inside oneself
> >> >> >One tries to get inside oneself
> >> >> >that inside of the outside
> >> >> >once one tries to get oneself inside what
> >> >> >one is outside:
> >> >> >to eat and to be eaten
> >> >> >to have the outside inside and to be
> >> >> >inside the outside
> >> >> >
> >> >> >But this is not enough. One is trying to get
> >> >> >the inside of what one is outside inside, and to
> >> >> >get iside the outside. But one does not get
> >> >> >inside the outside by getting the outside inside
> >> >> >for;
> >> >> >although one is full inside of the inside of the outside
> >> >> >one is on the outside of one's own inside
> >> >> >and by getting inside the outside
> >> >> >while one is on the inside
> >> >> >even the inside of the outside is outside
> >> >> >and inside oneself there is still nothing
> >> >> >There never has been anything else
> >> >> >and there never will be
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Laing, R.D. (1972) 'Knots' Harmondsworth, Penguin Books, p. 83
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Thought for the week?  Don't work too hard,
> >> >> >Warm regards,
> >> >> >Sarah
> >> >> >
> >> >> >http://www.TeacherResearch.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Quoting Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> And another quote from Laing - The Bird of Paradise
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> if this I that is the wherewith and whereby is not anything that
> >I
> >> know,
> >> >> >> then it is no thing - nothing.
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> >> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
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> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
> Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
> Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/
>
>
>