...indeed.......although the theme of "value for tax-payers' money" would certainly be worth exploring in more detail so that the public can get a more balanced view of the actual financial costings involved. It would be interesting to know how the cost of one year of translation services compares with, say, one day in Iraq, or with the projected overspend on the Olympics, or with the proposed national ID card scheme, or Trident, or etc, etc. (The words 'drop' and 'ocean' come to mind.) Having this information to hand for comparative purposes would help voters to judge the relative merits of different policies. 


----- Start Original Message -----
Sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:55:19 +0100
From: Melanie Cooke <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Ruth Kelly, translation and learning English

> It is also worth noticing how the media play these stories, and how 
> they place them alongside other items to create a kind of "theme" or 
> "mood" for the day. On the BBC news (at 6, 10 or news 24 I can't 
> remember) they had Ruth Kelly saying all this tired stuff about 
> interpreting services and so on alongside a "story" about the wife of a 
> jihadi (shot in an underground carpark) and an item about an "honour" 
> killing. Only the latter was a real (and very tragic) piece of news. 
> The others were not reports of events that had actually happened but 
> soundpieces designed to make sure we don't forget about the weird, 
> dangerous and expensive immigrant threat. That seems to be the aim of 
> the government, ably aided and abetted by the media.
> 
> Quoting James Simpson <[log in to unmask]>:
> 
> > Hello all
> >
> > The Translation issue has reared its head again on the BBC. And again 
> > a minor matter seems to be drawing attention away from the main 
> > concern.
> >
> > The government's communities secretary Ruth Kelly laid into 
> > translation services on the BBC Politics Show yesterday. Having 
> > information translated into English, says Kelly, means that people 
> > have no reason to learn English. She is quoted on the BBC website as 
> > saying: "So, for example, it's quite possible for someone to come 
> > here from Pakistan and elsewhere in the world and to find that 
> > materials are routinely translated into their mother tongue and 
> > therefore not have the incentive to learn English." 
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6738603.stm 
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6738603.stm>
> >
> > Following this argument, Kelly seems to be making two contentions: 
> > (a) that translation services are pointless and redundant; and (b) 
> > migrants to the UK are not motivated to learn English because 
> > everything they need is done for them in translation. On the first 
> > point, and given Kelly's concern with 'integration', surely there 
> > should be more, not less, translation of important information for 
> > new arrivals to help them integrate? But the matter of translation is 
> > - in my view - a red herring. The second point raises a far deeper 
> > issue.
> >
> > A government minister is yet again commenting on people's lack of 
> > English and a perception that they are unwilling to learn (this time 
> > because material they need is already translated). But the connection 
> > between the availability of information on housing, health etc in 
> > peoples' expert languages and their incentives - motivation would be 
> > a better word - to learn English is a very tenuous one. Where exactly 
> > is the evidence that people don't want to learn English because 
> > translation services exist? Has any migrant to the UK ever said that 
> > they are not motivated to learn English because someone has already 
> > translated everything they need into their own language? I'd guess 
> > not. The main problem for migrants when they are trying to learn 
> > English is surely the lack of freely available, good quality ESOL 
> > lessons.  Migrants to the UK are crying out for English classes: most 
> > ESOL providers have long waiting lists, and provision doesn't come 
> > close to meeting demand. Blaming the over-use of translation services 
> > for a perceived lack of willingness to learn English deflects 
> > attention away from this.
> >
> > Yet Ruth Kelly acknowledges the importance of learning English, as 
> > this quote from the same BBC report suggests: "Ms Kelly said evidence 
> > suggested that if someone did not try to learn English in their first 
> > six months in the UK, they were unlikely ever to learn the language." 
> > I can't imagine where Kelly got this information. But even so, the 
> > missing link in this argument is provision of ESOL. To try to learn a 
> > language, most people need lessons. The irony of Kelly's comment will 
> > not be lost on those involved in the Save ESOL campaign. Many groups 
> > are not entitled to free ESOL lessons until they have been in the 
> > country for a certain amount of time, regardless of waiting lists. 
> > For example, someone coming to join their husband or wife is not 
> > allowed to enrol onto an ESOL class until they have been in the UK 
> > for a year. And asylum seekers are not entitled to English lessons 
> > until they have been in the country for six months. By this time they 
> > will be unlikely ever to learn the language, according to Kelly. It's 
> > a good job for them she is wrong, I suppose.
> >
> > Ruth Kelly is a member of a government which seems happy to restrict 
> > provision for ESOL, while explicitly and insistently recognising its 
> > importance in community building. Back in August last year, at the 
> > launch of the Commission on Integration and Cohesion, she described 
> > one of the aims of the Commission being to 'encourage local 
> > authorities and community organization to play a greater role in 
> > ensuring new migrants better integrate into our communities and fill 
> > labour market shortages.' She gave as an example of such an 
> > enterprise: 'increasing the availability of English teaching'. 
> > www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1502280 
> > <http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1502280>
> >
> > The government has plenty of research evidence on which to base a 
> > judgement about the importance of ESOL provision. A research project 
> > I was involved in, the NRDC ESOL Effective Practice Project, stressed 
> > in its findings the importance of English language classes for new 
> > arrivals, and recommended that these classes should be available as 
> > soon as people arrive in the country. The same project also pointed 
> > out what many will know anyway: that current ESOL students are hungry 
> > for more provision. And this was research instigated to inform the 
> > Skills for Life policy. But it just doesn't square with the current 
> > government position on ESOL provision.
> >
> > As for migrants themselves, they are acutely aware of the importance 
> > of learning English, and to suggest otherwise is risible. Here is a 
> > quote from an ESOL student in Huddersfield, which I've taken from an 
> > excellent short film produced last month by students and tutors at 
> > Huddersfield Technical College: "English classes are very important 
> > for asylum seekers and refugees because it's like water and you can't 
> > live without water and you can't live without English language in 
> > this country."
> >
> > It is paradoxical indeed  that migrants to the UK are castigated by 
> > government ministers for not learning English, when the very same 
> > government instigates policies which deny potential learners access 
> > to freely available English lessons. This should be the focus of 
> > debate, not the presence or absence of translation services.
> >
> > James
> >
> > ***********************************
> > ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an 
> > interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research 
> > is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education 
> > Research, School of Education, University of Leeds.
> > To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Melanie Cooke
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> ***********************************
> ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds.
> To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
> A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
> http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm
> To contact the list owner, send an email to
> [log in to unmask]
> 

----- End Original Message -----

***********************************
ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds.
To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm
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