Thank you Diana
I have just sent a very angry email to Ruth Kelly.
Whether she is capable of understanding the implications of what she said
and the almost fascist undertone to her remarks, I am not sure.
Let's hope it rings some alarm bells elsewhere if not.
Frances
On 13/6/07 09:23, "Diana Tremayne" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Try the link below to comment on the Sun's article on Monday. You can email
> Ruth Kelly at [log in to unmask] - I don't know if she has
> another email too - that's what I have just found.
>
> Diana
>
> http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007260880,00.html
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ESOL-Research discussion forum
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hann, Naeema
> Sent: 13 June 2007 08:40
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Ruth Kelly, translation and learning English
>
>
> Have been reading this discussion with great interest. Like Isabel, I
> too feel that your well argued discussion must be published in a major
> newspaper James.
>
> It is so disappointing to have elected government representatives
> contradict what the government seems to say and sometimes do.
>
> Naeema
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ESOL-Research discussion forum
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James Simpson
> Sent: 11 June 2007 23:13
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Ruth Kelly, translation and learning English
>
> Hello all
>
> The Translation issue has reared its head again on the BBC. And again a
> minor matter seems to be drawing attention away from the main concern.
>
> The government's communities secretary Ruth Kelly laid into translation
> services on the BBC Politics Show yesterday. Having information
> translated into English, says Kelly, means that people have no reason to
> learn English. She is quoted on the BBC website as saying: "So, for
> example, it's quite possible for someone to come here from Pakistan and
> elsewhere in the world and to find that materials are routinely
> translated into their mother tongue and therefore not have the incentive
> to learn English." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6738603.stm
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6738603.stm>
>
> Following this argument, Kelly seems to be making two contentions: (a)
> that translation services are pointless and redundant; and (b) migrants
> to the UK are not motivated to learn English because everything they
> need is done for them in translation. On the first point, and given
> Kelly's concern with 'integration', surely there should be more, not
> less, translation of important information for new arrivals to help them
> integrate? But the matter of translation is - in my view - a red
> herring. The second point raises a far deeper issue.
>
> A government minister is yet again commenting on people's lack of
> English and a perception that they are unwilling to learn (this time
> because material they need is already translated). But the connection
> between the availability of information on housing, health etc in
> peoples' expert languages and their incentives - motivation would be a
> better word - to learn English is a very tenuous one. Where exactly is
> the evidence that people don't want to learn English because translation
> services exist? Has any migrant to the UK ever said that they are not
> motivated to learn English because someone has already translated
> everything they need into their own language? I'd guess not. The main
> problem for migrants when they are trying to learn English is surely the
> lack of freely available, good quality ESOL lessons. Migrants to the UK
> are crying out for English classes: most ESOL providers have long
> waiting lists, and provision doesn't come close to meeting demand.
> Blaming the over-use of translation services for a perceived lack of
> willingness to learn English deflects attention away from this.
>
> Yet Ruth Kelly acknowledges the importance of learning English, as this
> quote from the same BBC report suggests: "Ms Kelly said evidence
> suggested that if someone did not try to learn English in their first
> six months in the UK, they were unlikely ever to learn the language." I
> can't imagine where Kelly got this information. But even so, the missing
> link in this argument is provision of ESOL. To try to learn a language,
> most people need lessons. The irony of Kelly's comment will not be lost
> on those involved in the Save ESOL campaign. Many groups are not
> entitled to free ESOL lessons until they have been in the country for a
> certain amount of time, regardless of waiting lists. For example,
> someone coming to join their husband or wife is not allowed to enrol
> onto an ESOL class until they have been in the UK for a year. And asylum
> seekers are not entitled to English lessons until they have been in the
> country for six months. By this time they will be unlikely ever to learn
> the language, according to Kelly. It's a good job for them she is wrong,
> I suppose.
>
> Ruth Kelly is a member of a government which seems happy to restrict
> provision for ESOL, while explicitly and insistently recognising its
> importance in community building. Back in August last year, at the
> launch of the Commission on Integration and Cohesion, she described one
> of the aims of the Commission being to 'encourage local authorities and
> community organization to play a greater role in ensuring new migrants
> better integrate into our communities and fill labour market shortages.'
> She gave as an example of such an enterprise: 'increasing the
> availability of English teaching'.
> www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1502280
> <http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1502280>
>
> The government has plenty of research evidence on which to base a
> judgement about the importance of ESOL provision. A research project I
> was involved in, the NRDC ESOL Effective Practice Project, stressed in
> its findings the importance of English language classes for new
> arrivals, and recommended that these classes should be available as soon
> as people arrive in the country. The same project also pointed out what
> many will know anyway: that current ESOL students are hungry for more
> provision. And this was research instigated to inform the Skills for
> Life policy. But it just doesn't square with the current government
> position on ESOL provision.
>
> As for migrants themselves, they are acutely aware of the importance of
> learning English, and to suggest otherwise is risible. Here is a quote
> from an ESOL student in Huddersfield, which I've taken from an excellent
> short film produced last month by students and tutors at Huddersfield
> Technical College: "English classes are very important for asylum
> seekers and refugees because it's like water and you can't live without
> water and you can't live without English language in this country."
>
> It is paradoxical indeed that migrants to the UK are castigated by
> government ministers for not learning English, when the very same
> government instigates policies which deny potential learners access to
> freely available English lessons. This should be the focus of debate,
> not the presence or absence of translation services.
>
> James
>
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> Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education,
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> ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in
> research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James
> Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education,
> University of Leeds.
> To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
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