Drawing on Mohsen's poetic expression I'm hoping that we can linger longer 'on the 
portico of explicitness to watch the ambiguity of elucidation' to see if we can develop a 
shared understanding of 'educational' influence in the e-seminar that can contribute to 
world leading standards of judgment.  

In responding to Mohsen's ideas below I feel their rhetorical power in the sense that I 
am persuaded by and agree with the meanings. However, if we are to bring the 
embodied knowledges of educational practitioner-researchers into the Academy as 
valid and legitimated knowledge won't we have to provide evidence of our educational 
influences in learning and express with some clarity and evidence the living standards 
of judgement we use to evaluate the validity of our contributions to educational 
knowledge?   

Mohsen, I have  responded  to your different points below to see if we can develop a 
shared understanding of our meanings of educational influence and the standards of 
judgement we use to evaluate our contributions to educational knowledge. I have 
included urls to the evidence-based accounts of practitioner-researchers that I think 
show living meanings of the words and meanings in your rhetoric.

Mohsen - "Richmond and Roach (1992) suggest that social influence is by definition 
inherent in the role of a teacher. According to them, in order to have a lasting impact 
on student learning, teachers must facilitate academic growth while, at the same time, 
creating an environment conducive to learning. That is, we must establish and maintain 
positive teacher-student relationships if we hope to have a positive influence on 
learning. In this sense, teachers are constantly influencing learners’ learning. Some 
may be aware of techniques, skills, knowledge, practices, strategies, classroom 
management, their use of power in the classroom, etc. while others may be oblivious 
of their influencing prism. Latin root of education, educere, connotes the bringing forth 
or leading out of what is inside each child. Heidegger says teaching is to let the 
learners learn. I think this act of letting would be of great avail in that it can lead to 
learners’ independent thinking instead of forcing them, albeit artistically, to abide by the 
prescriptive and proscriptive modes of the teacher."

Jack - I not only agree that this 'would be of great avail in that it can lead to learners' 
independent thinking' I think that Ed Hawker in his educational enquiry 'How can I carry 
out Masters level educational research without abandoning my own educational 
values?' at http://www.jackwhitehead.com/tuesdayma/ehee06.htm , has explored the 
implications of holding such beliefs in his educational practice, researched this 
practice, and generated educational knowledge from this practice that has been 
legitimated in the Academy.
 
Mohsen "In the meantime, if we look at the educational influences in terms of learning 
as people like Peter Senge’s learning organization suggests, that requires a 
fundamental change in perspective. That change of perspective is what I call affecting 
the quality of life being the highest art. If we go with an ontological system that 
translates the learner’s meaning beyond his/her natural self, Do we as educators not 
have this mission at the apex of our agenda and in this sense are we not supposed to 
influence learning? ( Whether we have the tangible evidence (in the common sense) or 
not to prove this, we, having thought of this mission and being ontologically soaked into 
that mission, we are influencing the learning of the learners). This influence may unfold 
itself, in one level ,at the stage of intentionality where the educator's intention would 
embrace the action  and the action, itself, would penetrate those who seek out 
connectivity to the sublime self, albeit from numerous avenues of learning: the paths to 
influence learning would be as infinite as the number of the people or as extensive as 
the number of the breathing."

Jack - I do agree about the fundamental change of perspective. This is why I 
emphasise the importance of Alan Rayner's work on inclusionality as a relationally 
dynamic awareness of space and boundaries that is connective, reflexive and co-
creative (see http://people.bath.ac.uk/bssadmr/inclusionality/ ). I like your stress on 
ontology and am very fortunate in working with practitioner-researchers here in Bath 
who are willing to account for their own lives and learning in terms of their ontological 
values and beliefs. Marion Naidoo's and Bernie Sullivan's doctoral theses are 
particularly impressive for the way they hold themselves accountable to their values of 
a passion for compassion and social justice respectively. These accounts can be 
accessed from:
http://people.bath.ac.uk/edsajw/living.shtml

I also agree with you that that the paths to influence learning are as infinite as the 
number of people. However, aren't there only a few values and understandings that if 
lived more fully could contribute to the generation of a world of well-being and 
educational quality? Because I think that living a few of these values more fully could 
help to create a world of educational quality I like the ethical standards and standards 
of practice of the Ontario College of Teachers where they stress the significance of the 
values of care, trust, integrity and respect. 

(see http://www.jackwhitehead.com/tuesdayma/octstandards.pdf )

I have drafted out a visual narrative for this coming Monday evening's educational 
conversation at the University of Bath. It includes a video-clip that may resonate with 
your idea of affecting the quality of life being the highest art. The narrative is 
accessible from 
http://www.jackwhitehead.com/jack/jwecarpaper.htm and the second url takes you to 
the clip on You Tube that should start streaming quickly. I am wondering if such visual 
narratives that focus on Alan's expression of inclusionality and the living presence and 
relationships of ubuntu might contribute to the development of world leading standards 
of judgment from our practitioner-research?

Love Jack.