Well said
>>> "Skeates,St.John DEAL Awards Tm" <[log in to unmask]> 04/26/02 12:38pm >>>
Hmmm - so now by implication I'm racist and disabilist (?) too?
OK - I was quite happy to let this one die since I was out of the office
on Wednesday and only caught up on the furore yesterday. However since it
refuses to go away I think it's only fair that I have the right to reply.
This will, however be my last comment on the subject. And boy am I p*ssed
off!
It has been suggested that I apologise and make a commitment to keep my
sexist comments to myself. I will do neither. To do so would be the
height of hypocrisy. In fact I will go further and suggest that it is I
who deserve the apology from those who have derided me as sexist on the
basis of a single sentence. How dare you label me without knowing me or
my values and beliefs. To do so simply exposes your own despicable
prejudice and complete lack of tolerance for anyone who may hold
different views to your own.
If anyone was genuinely offended by my comment, rather than seeking to
opportunistically jump on the politically correct band wagon, come up to
Bedford and I will show you something to get offended about. I, like so
many others on this list I'm sure, live in a town steeped in poverty,
homelessness, violence, racial hatred, religious intolerance, and abuse.
Yet what really offends you? Words! If that really is the limit of your
social conscience, it's high time you took a walk in the real world
rather than dispensing your holier-than-thou missives in the mistaken
belief that it will somehow atone for your cosy middle class values.
You'd do more good by going and buying a copy of The Big Issue.
I don't believe in sexual equality. I don't believe in racial equality.
In fact I don't believe in any form of exclusionist equality who's prime
concern is to fight it's own corner, safely blinkered from any other
issues that may confuse things and paint the world as anything other than
black and white, right and wrong. I believe in equality - pure and
simple. I don't care if you are disabled, black, homosexual, Muslim,
homeless or whatever. All I care about is if you are getting a raw deal
from our so called caring society. The minute you fight for one set of
rights at the expense of another, you are no better than those you look
down on with such relish.
And there can be no right more fundamental than that of free speech! Even
if I were the worlds greatest bigot, my right to express my views should
be paramount, as is your right to refute them. You may debate with me but
you may not silence me. You may disagree with me but you may not
patronise me. You may despise me but you may not label me. So no, I will
not keep my comments to myself irrespective of how they may be
interpreted by the petty minded and intolerant.
Finally let's consider the specifics of the comment that has caused so
much moral outrage. I'm sure Ms Minogue is a wonderful, free thinking,
independent woman who would no more be tethered to a cooker than I would
sit though an entire episode of Michael Barrymore's My Kind of People.
However, she (or her record label if you want to be cynical) has chosen
to use her sexuality as a means of self promotion and therefore, I
assume, accepts the attitudes which it will inevitably evoke. Had I made
the comment about a work colleague, you would have every right to be
outraged. I didn't. I made it about an image, an icon, a phantom even and
a self-created one at that. In fact my quip simply goes to prove the
success with which Ms Minogue has reinvented herself over the last 5
years and I'm not sure she would thank you for leaping to her defence.
OK I'm done. As I said it was my intention to let sleeping dogs lie but
certain remarks made that quite impossible as far as I am concerned. And
yes I do have better things to do - tilting at windmills is not one of
them.
Happy Friday everyone :)
St.John Skeates
Individual
-----Original Message-----
From: claire wickham [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; Skeates,St.John DEAL Awards Tm
Subject: Re: Sexism
Sexism, racism and disabilism and all forms of prejudice should always
be challenged. This is how awareness is raised and how our voices are
heard.
Claire
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:03 +0100 "C.Florin" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Steve here. How do you find the time to have
these chats?! More to the point, is this the right place to have them?
> It does clogg up people's mail boxes.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:25:28
> +0100 Stephen Russell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Isn't there some work you lot should be doing?
> > Steve
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Margaret Herrington
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:14 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: Sexism
> > >
> > > Not easy to accept apologies,especially the claim that they are
> > > unreserved, when couched in such a form.
> > > The expression...'stop digging' springs to mind.
> > > Margaret
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> [log in to unmask] 04/24/02 02:54pm >>>
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > First off: if there is anyone on the list who felt personally hurt
by my
> > > comments, please accept my unreserved apologies.
> > >
> > > Next: review the thread.
> > >
> > > St John's comments were sexist - he is quite honest enough not to
deny
> > > that.
> > >
> > > My response was intended to be an amusing response with a tag
> > > acknowledging its sexist nature (and rebuking it - why else put it
in?).
> > > My assumption was that the thread would end there. I should have
> > > guessed, however, that one or two would be only too happy to leap
into
> > > the political fray.
> > >
> > > Claire's email, turning the scenario on its head was an excellent
one
> > > (and very witty) - I wish I'd thought of it first.
> > >
> > > I won't bother commenting on Margaret's 'I agree' (sagely nodding
dog)
> > > emails.
> > >
> > > Rob's email seems to suggest that I believe sexism is generally
> > > acceptable and that I brand those who disagree as 'killjoys'. He's
> > > obviously confusing me with someone else. However, I do feel it's
> > > important to keep at least one foot in the real world - and am
happy to
> > > say that I am not yet totally institutionalised.
> > >
> > > Along with many others on this list, I encounter disabled people in
> > > difficult circumstances every day. I frequently use humour as a
means of
> > > developing rapports with those I meet, and as a defence against the
sort
> > > of experiences and pressures that often accompany the job that I
do.
> > >
> > > At UCW, I worked very successfully as the only male in a team of
ten. I
> > > can assure you that my colleagues shared my sense of humour and
have
> > > never ever suggested that my behaviour was in any way sexist (and
they
> > > are quite sufficiently aware and quite confident enough to have
'put me
> > > right' had I stepped out of line).
> > >
> > > Equality and respect for others is vital - though it's important,
too,
> > > to maintain a sense of perspective.
> > >
> > > Finally: I'm certainly far from perfect (and wouldn't want to be)
but
> > > neither am I sexist - and I really don't need a lecture (a pious
and
> > > rather simplistic one at that) from a political opportunist on the
> > > issues of gender and equal opportunities.
> > >
> > > Sorry to sound so harsh (and still not particularly repentant).
Perhaps
> > > it is I who needs to get out more!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > fidlerob wrote:
> > >
> > > > I find it rather strange that people who advocate equal
opportunities
> > > > for students with disabilities cannot transfer their
understanding
> > > > into the area of gender equality.
> > > > The comments made are based on a stereotype that women
> > > > should be beautiful and tied to the kitchen sink. Would anyone
> > > > dare transfer a similar stereotype to the area of disability; for
> > > > example that disabled people are unfortunate and we should all
feel
> > > > sorry for them and pat them on the head when they try and say
> > > > something. I think there would be uproar, and quite right too.
> > > >
> > > > It's one thing to make a discriminatory comment and regret it,
but
> > > > another to revel in it or pass it off as a bit of fun. I don't
think
> > > > branding those who complain about sexism as killjoys is
> > > > acceptable.
> > > > Perhaps an apology and a commitment to keep your sexism to
> > > > yourself would be more appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > Rob Fidler (dyslexia support - Roehampton)
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Apr 2002, at 18:20, Peter Hill wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Hi
> > > >>
> > > >>Guilty. Though, I'm afraid, not particularly repentant.
> > > >>
> > > >>Regards
> > > >>
> > > >>Peter Hill
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Margaret Herrington wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>well said Claire!!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Margaret
> > > >>>
> > > >>> >>> [log in to unmask] 04/23/02 04:41pm >>>
> > > >>>In an ideal world you would both be at home preparing someone's
dinner
> > > >>>and not allowed to send out sexist e-messages!!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Claire
> > > >>>
> > > >>>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:37:48 +0100 Peter Hill
<[log in to unmask]>
> > > >>>wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > Hi
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Skeates,St.John DEAL Awards Tm wrote:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > > In an idea world ...
> > > >>> > > Kylie Minogue would be at home right now preparing my
dinner.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Wrong again, St John. In an ideal world, she'd be at home
preparing
> > > >>>mine!
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > (Tut, tut - sexist banter!)
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Regards
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Peter Hill
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > --
> > > >>> > 01527 500324
> > > >>> > [log in to unmask]
> > > >>> > www.study-pro.com <http://www.study-pro.com/> <
> > > <http://www.study-pro.com/>>
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Dyslexia Consultancy and Resources
> > > >>> >
> > > >>>
> > > >>>----------------------
> > > >>>Claire Wickham
> > > >>>Director: Access Unit - Short Courses and Outreach
> > > >>>University of Bristol
> > > >>>Union Building
> > > >>>Queen's Road
> > > >>>Clifton
> > > >>>Bristol BS8 1LN
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Tel: 0117 954 5710
> > > >>>Textphone: 0117 954 5715
> > > >>>Fax: 0117 954 5714
> > > >>>
> > > >>>[log in to unmask]
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>--
> > > >>01527 500324
> > > >>[log in to unmask]
> > > >> www.study-pro.com <http://www.study-pro.com/>
> > > >>
> > > >>Dyslexia Consultancy and Resources
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > 01527 500324
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > www.study-pro.com <http://www.study-pro.com/>
> > >
> > > Dyslexia Consultancy and Resources
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> ----------------------
> Carol Florin, Disability Co-ordinator, Mental Health
> University of Hull
> Disability Services
> 2 Ferens Avenue
> HULL
> 01482 466833
> [log in to unmask]
>
----------------------
Claire Wickham
Director: Access Unit - Short Courses and Outreach
University of Bristol
Union Building
Queen's Road
Clifton
Bristol BS8 1LN
Tel: 0117 954 5710
Textphone: 0117 954 5715
Fax: 0117 954 5714
[log in to unmask]
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