Yes, it is really important that students have a choice of appropriately qualified trainers.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of alex larg
Sent: 27 March 2007 22:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: training
Hi Chris,
As an independent trainer, and for a number of suppliers I ask students to sign a form to say that they have received the training and that they are satisfied with the training. I don't force them to sign this form, and if they were not happy with the training I would ask them to sign that I have attended and then write why they were not satisfied, preferably after I had gone so they are not inhibited as to what they want to say.
I then send the attendance form to the LEA / supplier when I invoice so the LEA don't have to chase it up and so the student doesn't have to deal with it at another time. It is also at this time, the end of the session that I offer follow up email / telephone / messenger support so that the student can ask questions at their convenience, including weekends and evenings - I also supply training at these somewhat unsocial times if that is when it suits the student / client.
Some students choose to spread their sessions over a number of weeks, months or even years and I follow this up. Some people I (gladly) support long into their employment and retirement in some cases! I do this because they are stimulated to learn and achieve - and they do.
I am worried that as an independent the "push" seems to be from some suppliers that training goes exclusively to suppliers - for convenience sake!?! - and that students are not given the choice of independent, experienced trainers.
I would be more in favour of Amanda's suggestion of students being supplied with a list of trainers from which they can choose - if anyone is still listening - anyone of any significance that is...
(Chris - I think we met once in Oxford?)
Best wishes,
Alex
Alex Larg
[log in to unmask]
07931 561 877 or 07916 175 077
Freelance Assistive Technology Trainer
Freelance study needs assessor
Former Disability Officer
On 27/3/07 14:27, "Quinn, Christine" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Some LEAs are getting students to sign a form once the training has
> taken place and this releases the funding. As part of their follow-up
> assessment centres will be checking that it has taken place which acts
> as a prompt for the student.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tony Lees
> Sent: 27 March 2007 14:24
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: training
>
> Hi Emma,
> I'm not sure this helps you very much but if we could persuade all the
> students for whom we have outstanding training sessions (some £200,000
> worth, already agreed by LEA's) to take them up I for one would be a
> very happy supplier! Just think, fantastic (well specified) equipment,
> excellent service and trained to get the best out of it all - surely
> this is the student "level playing field" (and not just nirvana) for which we all strive?
>
> Regards, Tony
>
> Tony Lees
> Avantek Computer Limited
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Emma Wright
>> Sent: 27 March 2007 14:10
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: training
>>
>> I just want to clarify something I said the other day and should have
>> been clearer about at the time... I've spoken to a few students from
>> a few universities and although all of these have said they were not
>> offered training, they are not likely to be representative of all
>> students, and my next task is to contact the staff responsible for
>> offering training to see what percentage of the whole are offering
>> training.
>> Indeed, one university representative has already been in touch to
>> say they do offer training to most students. The students at that
>> university actually said that although they hadn't been offered
>> training, they didn't really feel they needed it anyway (which may
>> translate to an offer having been made but turned down!).
>>
>> Training wasn't something I covered in a big way during my interviews
>> as students gave me the impression that it wasn't that important to
>> them, but the discussion on this board has made me rethink that. I
>> know that personally I could have done with some training had there
>> been enough money available for it, but it seems not all students feel
>> the same. What I was intending to highlight in my post was the
>> apparent difference between the assumption on this board that
>> training is a given and students perceptions that they were not
>> offered any (which may of course be incorrect) or that did not want
>> it. I wonder how this translates in terms of feedback on the quality
>> of training if students don't feel it is very important anyway, and
>> on how good they perceive the equipment to be if they haven't been
>> trained how to make full use of it.
>>
>> Anyway, this leads me to ask the following questions of you all, do
>> you have any figures, or even anecdotes, hunches, etc, regarding the
>> number of students that are offered training and those that take it
>> up? What sort of software/hardware do you tend to offer training on,
>> and which do you not? Does the funding tend to be readily available
>> for this training? Do you have in-house or external trainers on hand
>> for this? Do your students seem to feel training is important, and
>> if not, why not? Any responses to any of the questions will be very
>> welcome (preferably off list -
>> [log in to unmask]) and will be used as background information
>> to my PhD research.
>>
>> Emma
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27/03/07, Nasser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Hi Alex
>>>
>>> Can you let me know how you get your training referrals? Do you
>>> contact students or are they passed on to you by the
>> institution or the supplier?
>>>
>>> The reason for asking is that we often come across students
>> that were
>>> supposed to be trained by the institution but we find that
>> they have
>>> not received the training, In such circumstances we would like to
>>> refer them back to other training providers who are based in the
>>> vicinity and if this is provided by an assessment centre or
>> University
>>> then even better. We strongly feel receiving the training at early
>>> stages will prevent potential problems and will
>> significantly improve
>>> the quality of life for the students. I think prevention is
>> always better than the cure.
>>>
>>> We have our own trainers too but we either use them if the LEA
>>> requests us to carry out the job or there are no other training
>>> providers nearby. We previously found that pressuring
>> students towards
>>> getting the training confused some of them as they had been
>> contacted
>>> and trained by other trainers we hence had ended up duplicating the
>>> job which meant we could not be paid for the training sessions. I
>>> think it is safer for us to let the LEAs place the order with us to
>>> avoid such situation as well as not stepping on other people's toes.
>>>
>>> At the moment we operate a system of providing information to some
>>> training providers on the delivery of the equipment to the
>> students so
>>> that the training can be carried out at the earliest opportunity. I
>>> think the longer the student has the equipment without the training
>>> the less likely it becomes for them to take the recommended
>> training.
>>> If you are interested in receiving this information for
>> your students please let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Nasser Siabi
>>> Managing Director
>>> Microlink PC (UK) Ltd
>>> Direct: 02380 240 316
>>> Mobile: 07870603128
>>>
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>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of alex larg
>>> Sent: 27 March 2007 01:47
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: FW: training
>>>
>>> Hi Emma,
>>>
>>> I am a freelance trainer, an assessor, a former disability
>> officer and
>>> a campaigner and so have an interest in your comments.
>>>
>>> I aim to offer a person-centred approach to the clients' training
>>> sessions that I deliver and I don't feel that I need to
>> know anything
>>> about a person before I train them. I feel that this
>> advance knowledge
>>> can lead to people having certain preconceptions which
>> isn't healthy
>>> and can lead to laziness and complacency.
>>>
>>> I train in most software strategies, with the exception of
>> JAWS as I
>>> am not a user myself and don't currently have the time to
>> develop my
>>> knowledge of that complex program. I probably don't know everything
>>> about every program, but I know how to find out quickly. I learn
>>> something new everyday from the questions I am asked by
>> clients - this
>>> may sound like I don't know much, but there is a lot of
>> truth to the
>>> saying - the more you know the more you realize you don't know. I
>>> won't know anything soon :-)
>>>
>>> I also know what programs should do and so can reassure
>> clients when
>>> programs don't do what they should that it is not they (the client)
>>> who are doing something wrong. This situation can be
>> intimidating and
>>> off putting for users. Again I feel this is exacerbated by
>> underspecified machines.
>>> Another thing I keep going on about on one list or another.
>>>
>>> Wherever possible I would try to relate training to the work that a
>>> student has on the go. Where this is not possible the
>> training might
>>> be aimed at creating an individualised user manual for the user as
>>> they know how they learn and how they will best remember. Visual,
>>> textual and/or aural/oral as required. They may not know they know
>>> this, but I aim to help them to realize this or at least begin to
>>> consider this and then suggest they carry this philosophy
>> through to other pieces of work.
>>> I use plain English - non jargon - but using targeted essential
>>> language which is used within computer systems - widely used
>>> vocabulary necessary to function and interact. I will
>> patiently repeat
>>> this language and any points, if so required, until the client is
>>> comfortable and has grasped the necessary information.
>>>
>>> I also don't have a set way of doing things as everyone is
>> different
>>> and in my opinion good training has a solid framework basis, but
>>> requires flexibility to wrap around the clients' own
>> learning styles.
>>>
>>> I work all around the country. Please contact me off list for any
>>> further information. I would also be interested in the names of the
>>> three universities you mention, off list.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> Alex Larg
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 07931 561 877 or 07916 175 077
>>> Freelance Assistive Technology Trainer Freelance study
>> needs assessor
>>> Former Disability Officer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>> From: Emma Wright <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their
>> support staff."
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:51:12 +0100
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: training
>>>
>>> I keep hearing all this about training, but I've never been offered
>>> any! Nor have any of the students I've interviewed as part of my
>>> research across (so far) three universities. What sort of training
>>> for what sort of software tends to be offered?
>>>
>>> Emma
>>>
>>> On 26/03/07, George Bell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Might I perhaps suggest that people take a serious look at
>>>> http://www.bcab.org.uk/training.html
>>>>
>>>> This is an initiative taken by the British Computer
>> Association of
>>>> the Blind (BCAB) in response to complaints about poor
>> standards of
>>>> training in the use of I.T.
>>>> equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Many organisations, including the Department of Employment for
>>>> example, are now insisting that contracted trainers are
>> BTCS (BCAB
>>>> Trainer Certification Scheme) approved.
>>>>
>>>> Food for thought?
>>>>
>>>> George Bell.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their
>> support staff.
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Austen
>>>> Sent: 26 March 2007 13:51
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: training
>>>>
>>>> Posted without comment
>>>> extract from the 'form' letter sent out to students
>> regarding their
>>>> DSA provision. This is from a local LEA
>>>> ( I do not think it is appropriate to name which one).
>>>>
>>>> "Recently, some students have informed us that they felt
>>>> pressurized into accepting training provided by their University.
>>>> Please note that the LEA only uses training companies who are
>>>> thoroughly reliable and have many years' experience.with
>> equipment
>>>> training for disabled students.
>>>> If you feel that you have been treated unfairly by any
>> individual
>>>> or by a professional body, please contact us immediately
>> and we will
>>>> ensure appropriate action is taken".
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Emma Jane Wright
>>> School of Sociology and Social Policy University of Nottingham
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>
>>> Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Emma Jane Wright
>> School of Sociology and Social Policy University of Nottingham
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> www.accessingmaterials.org.uk
>>
>
Sent using the Microsoft Entourage 2004 for Mac Test Drive.
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