HI,
I think this is an important point, Liz, and one which we would agree with. We do operate a 3 strikes rule but we are careful to
make it clear that it is not supposed to be a punishment so we always inform the student first and will reinstate the booking if
the student specifically requests it.
We have any number of ways students can let us know if they are not going to arrive and we only operate the rule if the student
hasn't contacted us to let us know why they are absent on 3 consecutive occasions and then it will only relate specifically to the
session missed ie not support for the whole day or week.
Like Chris at Notts Trent, we will provide a note-taker in the students absence if there are acknowledged disability-related
reasons why a student cannot attend (rather than illness or laziness (eh? surely not??) per se).
Knowing Chris as I do, I suspect her system will also be operated sympathetically.........?
Cheers
Paddy
Disability Support Manager
Sheffield Hallam University
________________________________
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. on behalf of Jackson, Elizabeth
Sent: Wed 12/01/2005 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures
I must say that as a supporter of blind & partially sighted learners I would urge everyone to consider this aspect from the point
of view of the student. Withdrawing support, which may well have been missed for health related issues or just coping with a
large amount of work and access issues would seem wholly inappropriate.
For visually impaired learners and other students with disabilities it is often difficult to obtain lecture notes, presentations
and other learning material in their accessible format as it is, this combined with the additional time required to complete
assignments or work through materials would be further compounded by the withdrawal of support through the "three strikes and you
are out " rule.
I would advocate that any 'general' ruling would be inappropriate for those with disabilities such as visual impairment or
learning difficulties. Surely it is much more important to consider the needs and circumstances of the individual in these
cases.....
---
Liz Jackson
Senior Post Compulsory Education Officer
RNIB, London & South East
Tel: 020 7391 2138
Over 95 percent of books are never made available in large print, audio or braille. The Right to Read Alliance is a group of
charities and organisations campaigning to increase the number of books available to people with sight problems, dyslexia and
print reading disabilities. Find out how you can help at www.rnib.org.uk/righttoread.
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Karen Beauchamp-Pryor
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures
I wondered if you had considered this issue from the student's perspective?
I interviewed 25 students based at one HEI and this particular problem was
raised by several students. The students voiced their concern as to the
potential difficulties if support was withdrawn and commented that missing a
lecture and catching up was not as easy for them as for their non-disabled
counterparts. For example, where visually impaired students were concerned,
missing a lecture would not only entail obtaining notes from other students,
but would also require support in the dictation of these notes. This was
not always so easy when disabled students didn't have a supportive network
of friends. The students I interviewed were also well aware of their
responsibilities in attending lectures and tutorials and I found they were
very dedicated in their studies and wanted to do well. They were certainly
not looking for easy options.
This started me thinking back to my own experiences as an undergraduate. As
a first year student I was disappointed with the quality of notes provided
by the HEI's notetakers. I was able to discuss this with the LEA and they
suggested I considered appointing my own notetakers. I found myself in a
position where I could appoint those people I felt most capable and who I
felt at most ease to work with and this I continued to do into my
postgraduate studies. It was an empowering process and put me firmly in
control. I was fortunate in having a very supportive and understanding
LEA.
Playing devil's advocate, if HEIs are going to threaten to withdraw support
from the student and appear heavy handed, surely the student can discuss
with the LEA appointing support directly? Maybe the rules have changed in
the last few years and students no longer have this option. I would be
interested in your comments as this is something I am likely to cover in my
PhD.
Karen Beauchamp-Pryor
University of Wales Swansea
01558 822462
----- Original Message -----
From: "Baxter, Chris" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures
You do need to have a management system in operation to ensure you do
not allow 'no shows' to push the students bill high. At NTU we have a
'three strikes and you're out ' rule for each notetaking session that a
student should attend, if they fail to attend three in a row we remove
the support for that session, if there are problems within the session
the student really needs to deal with them with the academic staff and
should not get notes taken in absence (which is something we rarely do
and has to have 'good grounds' for).
For dyslexia support the rule is two strikes and you're out...vital
expensive resources that we can't afford to waste on students who don't
turn up and don't tell us why. All the above is written into guidelines
which students have a copy of at the start of the year.
Since operating in this way we have seen abuse of the support
workers/tutors diminish and the system seems fairer all round.
Hope this helps
Chris Baxter
Disability Service Co-ordinator
The Nottingham Trent University
Burton Street
Nottingham
NG1 4BU
0115 8486163 voice and minicom
[log in to unmask]
www.ntu.ac.uk/sss/disability/index.html
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Trott
Sent: 10 January 2005 17:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures
This was discussed at QAG and there was some advice but I can't recall
what it was. I THINK it was that the DSA could pay for 3 missed sessions
but it might have been more. This is probably less of a problem with
dyslexia tuition than with more intensive support. It might be in the
guidelines on the DfES website.
Mick Trott
In a message dated 10/01/05 11:56:18 GMT Standard Time,
[log in to unmask]
writes:
<< payment for missed tutorials/lecturesDear Kirsty. I gather this is an
issue where LEA procedures and employment law clashes. We ve been told
that casual tutors would be paid for a month after a student decides to
leave (with or without notice) as we will need to give them a month
notice. Leas, apparently, would not be happy to pay for sessions the
student did not attend so Universities would have to pick up the costs.
Pls let me know if you have any news that refute the above positions.
Regards, Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirsty Mackenzie
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:09 PM
Subject: payment for missed tutorials/lectures
Hi all,
Apologies for going over old ground, but I've done a quick search in
the dis-forum archives and failed to find anything conclusive...
Can anyone advise of the DfES line on LEAs paying for booked
note-taking or learning support sessions the student didn't attend (for
reasons not relating to their disability)?
Now that we send LEAs student-signed timesheets when we invoice for
DSA-funded support it will be clear which were attended and which not,
so obviously we want to make sure we're getting it right, and know
exactly how much notice should be given in order for the support worker
not to claim... Also, is there an upper limit on the number of missed
sessions the LEA should fund?
All the best,
Kirsty >>
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