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HI, I think this is an important point, Liz, and one which we would agree with. We do operate a 3 strikes rule but we are careful to make it clear that it is not supposed to be a punishment so we always inform the student first and will reinstate the booking if the student specifically requests it. We have any number of ways students can let us know if they are not going to arrive and we only operate the rule if the student hasn't contacted us to let us know why they are absent on 3 consecutive occasions and then it will only relate specifically to the session missed ie not support for the whole day or week. Like Chris at Notts Trent, we will provide a note-taker in the students absence if there are acknowledged disability-related reasons why a student cannot attend (rather than illness or laziness (eh? surely not??) per se). Knowing Chris as I do, I suspect her system will also be operated sympathetically.........? Cheers Paddy Disability Support Manager Sheffield Hallam University ________________________________ From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. on behalf of Jackson, Elizabeth Sent: Wed 12/01/2005 09:24 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures I must say that as a supporter of blind & partially sighted learners I would urge everyone to consider this aspect from the point of view of the student. Withdrawing support, which may well have been missed for health related issues or just coping with a large amount of work and access issues would seem wholly inappropriate. For visually impaired learners and other students with disabilities it is often difficult to obtain lecture notes, presentations and other learning material in their accessible format as it is, this combined with the additional time required to complete assignments or work through materials would be further compounded by the withdrawal of support through the "three strikes and you are out " rule. I would advocate that any 'general' ruling would be inappropriate for those with disabilities such as visual impairment or learning difficulties. Surely it is much more important to consider the needs and circumstances of the individual in these cases..... --- Liz Jackson Senior Post Compulsory Education Officer RNIB, London & South East Tel: 020 7391 2138 Over 95 percent of books are never made available in large print, audio or braille. The Right to Read Alliance is a group of charities and organisations campaigning to increase the number of books available to people with sight problems, dyslexia and print reading disabilities. Find out how you can help at www.rnib.org.uk/righttoread. -----Original Message----- From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Karen Beauchamp-Pryor Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:02 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures I wondered if you had considered this issue from the student's perspective? I interviewed 25 students based at one HEI and this particular problem was raised by several students. The students voiced their concern as to the potential difficulties if support was withdrawn and commented that missing a lecture and catching up was not as easy for them as for their non-disabled counterparts. For example, where visually impaired students were concerned, missing a lecture would not only entail obtaining notes from other students, but would also require support in the dictation of these notes. This was not always so easy when disabled students didn't have a supportive network of friends. The students I interviewed were also well aware of their responsibilities in attending lectures and tutorials and I found they were very dedicated in their studies and wanted to do well. They were certainly not looking for easy options. This started me thinking back to my own experiences as an undergraduate. As a first year student I was disappointed with the quality of notes provided by the HEI's notetakers. I was able to discuss this with the LEA and they suggested I considered appointing my own notetakers. I found myself in a position where I could appoint those people I felt most capable and who I felt at most ease to work with and this I continued to do into my postgraduate studies. It was an empowering process and put me firmly in control. I was fortunate in having a very supportive and understanding LEA. Playing devil's advocate, if HEIs are going to threaten to withdraw support from the student and appear heavy handed, surely the student can discuss with the LEA appointing support directly? Maybe the rules have changed in the last few years and students no longer have this option. I would be interested in your comments as this is something I am likely to cover in my PhD. Karen Beauchamp-Pryor University of Wales Swansea 01558 822462 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baxter, Chris" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:21 PM Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures You do need to have a management system in operation to ensure you do not allow 'no shows' to push the students bill high. At NTU we have a 'three strikes and you're out ' rule for each notetaking session that a student should attend, if they fail to attend three in a row we remove the support for that session, if there are problems within the session the student really needs to deal with them with the academic staff and should not get notes taken in absence (which is something we rarely do and has to have 'good grounds' for). For dyslexia support the rule is two strikes and you're out...vital expensive resources that we can't afford to waste on students who don't turn up and don't tell us why. All the above is written into guidelines which students have a copy of at the start of the year. Since operating in this way we have seen abuse of the support workers/tutors diminish and the system seems fairer all round. Hope this helps Chris Baxter Disability Service Co-ordinator The Nottingham Trent University Burton Street Nottingham NG1 4BU 0115 8486163 voice and minicom [log in to unmask] www.ntu.ac.uk/sss/disability/index.html [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Trott Sent: 10 January 2005 17:50 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: payment for missed tutorials/lectures This was discussed at QAG and there was some advice but I can't recall what it was. I THINK it was that the DSA could pay for 3 missed sessions but it might have been more. This is probably less of a problem with dyslexia tuition than with more intensive support. It might be in the guidelines on the DfES website. Mick Trott In a message dated 10/01/05 11:56:18 GMT Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << payment for missed tutorials/lecturesDear Kirsty. I gather this is an issue where LEA procedures and employment law clashes. We ve been told that casual tutors would be paid for a month after a student decides to leave (with or without notice) as we will need to give them a month notice. Leas, apparently, would not be happy to pay for sessions the student did not attend so Universities would have to pick up the costs. Pls let me know if you have any news that refute the above positions. Regards, Andy ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirsty Mackenzie To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: payment for missed tutorials/lectures Hi all, Apologies for going over old ground, but I've done a quick search in the dis-forum archives and failed to find anything conclusive... Can anyone advise of the DfES line on LEAs paying for booked note-taking or learning support sessions the student didn't attend (for reasons not relating to their disability)? Now that we send LEAs student-signed timesheets when we invoice for DSA-funded support it will be clear which were attended and which not, so obviously we want to make sure we're getting it right, and know exactly how much notice should be given in order for the support worker not to claim... Also, is there an upper limit on the number of missed sessions the LEA should fund? All the best, Kirsty >> DISCLAIMER: This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this case, please reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and information in this email that do not relate to the official business of Nottingham Trent University shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University. 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