Tim Trent on 13 May 2005 at 17:53 said:-
> And that part is the point, Ian, and I am grateful to you.
> People appear to be discussing this emotionally and with
> regard to what people might do, as opposed to the definition
> of the data.
We appear to agree about the importance of properly interpreting and
implementing the DPA definitions.
Although the comment "and with regard to what people might do" seems at odds
with the DPA 1998 legal requirements to determine "purpose" when
"processing" personal data, requiring as they do prior consideration of what
people might 'do' with personal data, and ensuring "appropriate" security
measures restrict use and availability for the identified purpose(s).
In DPA terms many of the strictly logical extensions have seemed to
illustrate more of a purposeless based approach, possibly reflective of the
difficulties inherent in simply and humanely handling purposes.
> A name with an address that is not valid is not data that, of
> itself, can identify a living individual. Ergo it is no
> longer subject to the DPA 1998.
If a name together with an invalid address could not be considered personal
data it would be illogical for so many organisations to go to such great
lengths in recording, maintaining and holding invalid addresses. Those
organisations would not be so careful in their processing of what, following
some arguments, would be invalid data, unless their intentions provide a
purpose for those data holdings, like linking to living individuals, in
which case the invalid address data would seem to become personal data
rather than a sort of uncontrolled data.
Equally where an invalidity may arise because of a mistake within a living
individuals record, that data would still be considered personal data under
the DPA, otherwise there would be no need to provide that data in any s.7
response.
Consider a name like "Mr large body of water wending its way around
Nottingham". If that is thought to be invalid as a name, then it is not
personal data, unless it is likely that any data controller has or could
obtain any necessary information to relate that data to a living
individual(s).
It would seem that the mere intention to consider which living individual an
invalid name or address could relate to would make what was considered an
invalid name or address personal data being processed for some purpose and
subject to any applicable ethical/moral/legal considerations, and that any
lack of intention merely defines a different set of constraining purpose(s),
or raises the question of any need for that data collection to exist.
Ian W
This e-mail and its contents are provided for the purposes of furthering
knowledge about privacy and data protection and should not be used or
processed for any other purposes.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
> Sent: 13 May 2005 17:53
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Accuracy of records - 'Gone Away'
>
>
> And that part is the point, Ian, and I am grateful to you.
> People appear to be discussing this emotionally and with
> regard to what people might do, as opposed to the definition
> of the data.
>
> A name with an address that is not valid is not data that, of
> itself, can identify a living individual. Ergo it is no
> longer subject to the DPA 1998.
>
> That does not remove any duty of care we may have over
> removing that record from the database properly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Welton
> Sent: 13 May 2005 15:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Accuracy of records - 'Gone Away'
>
> Chris Brogan on 13 May 2005 at 15:42 said:-
>
> > I cannot agree with you. Just because the person has left
> the address
> > they havent ceased to exist.
>
> The debate seems to revolve around "any data in the
> possession of or likely to come into the possession of the
> data controller" when linked to the "data controller" definition.
>
> If it is likely or possible that the data subject can be
> identified by the data controller, the data remains personal data.
>
> Ian W
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Brogan
> > Sent: 13 May 2005 15:42
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Accuracy of records - 'Gone Away'
> >
> >
> > Tim,
> > I cannot agree with you. Just because the person has left
> the address
> > they havent ceased to exist. If he owes you money you are probably
> > going to track him down. The information you hold on him
> will help you
> > to do so. It is big business tracking down "Gone Aways". Credit Card
> > Companies, Mail Order Companies etc spend a fortune on it.
> > The credit agencies have dedicated `databases to assist in
> > locating "Gone Aways". The information Commissioner issued a
> > code of practice many years ago dealing with the functions of
> > Tracing Agencies. The Information Commissioner has actively
> > targeted agencies that track down absconders because of the
> > methods that they use. An absconder was once located because
> > the agent knew he had a dog called Spikins. There are
> > numerous cases of a similar nature.
> >
> > Chris Brogan
> > www.securitysi.com
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues on
> > behalf of Tim Trent
> > Sent: Fri 13/05/2005 15:15
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Accuracy of records - 'Gone Away'
> >
> >
> >
> > I disagree.
> >
> > Tim Trent at "Old address, old company" or "Old house, Old
> Street, Old
> > Town", is not sufficient data, even with other data
> reasonably held,
> > to identify a living individual. It identifies what is now a non
> > existent individual. You are wise to counsel caution, of
> course, but
> > this record cannot identify Tim Trent.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roland Perry
> > Sent: 13 May 2005 14:40
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Accuracy of records - 'Gone Away'
> >
> > In message
> > <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAh8IWNoVXQESwWr
> > gvRgp6R8KAA
> > [log in to unmask]>,
> > at 13:54:23 on Fri, 13 May 2005, Tim Trent
> > <[log in to unmask]> writes
> > >Someone who is a "gone away" is precisely that and the
> record is no
> > >longer capable of identifying a living individual
> >
> > You might not have their current address, but there will be enough
> > information to *identify* the person. Don't confuse
> identifying them
> > with being able to locate them this week.
> > --
> > Roland Perry
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> > available to the world wide web community at large at
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> > If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> > leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> > All user commands can be found at : -
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> > Any queries about sending or receiving message please send
> to the list
> > owner
> > [log in to unmask]
> > (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> > available to the world wide web community at large at
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> > If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> > leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> > All user commands can be found at : -
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> > Any queries about sending or receiving message please send
> to the list
> > owner
> > [log in to unmask]
> > (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> > available to the world wide web community at large at
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> > If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> > leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> > All user commands can be found at : -
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> > Any queries about sending or receiving message please send
> to the list
> > owner
> > [log in to unmask]
> > (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> available to the world wide web community at large at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> All user commands can be found at : -
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to
> the list owner
> [log in to unmask]
> (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> available to the world wide web community at large at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> All user commands can be found at : -
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to
> the list owner
> [log in to unmask]
> (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
available to the world wide web community at large at
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
If you wish to leave this list please send the command
leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
All user commands can be found at : -
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to the list owner
[log in to unmask]
(all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
