"If you think freedom is costly, try the alternative."
Hang on, in the context, we had been living with the alternative up
until the 01/01/05 and we seemed to be okay. Now I'm not saying Freedom
of Information isn't a good thing, because it clearly is, just that such
a comment is completely meaningless in that context.
I would also like to point out that while people here may want to get
on their political high horse, or soapbox, and spout ideology but if you
asked most taxpayers if they were happy that the NHS spent £19,000 of
their money finding information so that a journalist can write a couple
of paragraphs (or pages at best) condemning the health service while
they or their relatives have to wait months, in some cases, if they need
an operation I think you'd find that they would be livid.
All good things have their downsides too and these should be addressed
rather than ignoring them and criticising those who point them out. If
nothing can be done without it being detrimental then fine but there
should be debate and consideration not just criticism and the formation
(in mind rather than reality) of two polar opposite sides. The original
e-mail in this thread didn't take a side, or even offer opinion on the
Act, but simply showed a downside to FOIA and was presumably intended
for the purpose of discussion.
Michael Lord
>>> davidwyatt <[log in to unmask]> 06/04/2005 00:48:04 >>>
The managers, accountants and budget controllers who make up a key
element
of any organisations management all have an opportunity to personally
participate or commit resources to lobby processes as legislation is
drafted. I understood that parliament must be given a cost declaration
statement supporting the impacts of legislation when it is drafted
allowing
them to consider potential financial impacts to the economy before it
is
passed.
In a democracy, processes exist for everyone to 'have their say' but
its up
to individuals to make use of them, whether its as a manager wearing
his/her
commercial hat where the narrow financial cost view dominates, or as
the man
in the street where he/she enjoys the freedom to air a view. If you
support democracy then you have to actively fight to win and retain it.
.
Like privacy shouting after its gone costs you more than the narrow
financial aspect. Any legislative change generates costs but its being
able
to identify the benefiits which counts.
It appears rather naive of those who manage the purse strings of an
organisation to suddenly decide to raise questions on the financial
costs
after legislation goes live. As dear Delia said 'Where are you' - 'Lets
be
'aving you' - but at legislative lobby stages please.
David Wyatt
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [data-protection] FOI - a cheap research tool for
journalists?
> Well said. It's just a shame you weren't talking about the
government of
> this country.
> Informed free consent is a luxury not afforded to us. The really
useful
> information, such as why the AG changed his mind on the legality of
the
> Iraq war,
> or how the intelligence changed from "patchy" to "solid" in the blink
of
> an
> eye, will never be divulged. A majority of citizens do not
understand the
> implications of freedom, nor do they realise the implications of
giving up
> hard-won
> freedoms for a little temporary security. Two cheers for democracy!
>
> Ian B
>
> ------------
>
> In a message dated 05/04/05 09:56:19 GMT Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>> A government that is responsive and accountable to its citizens is
a
>> cornerstone of democracy. To be able to give our free consent to a
>> government, we must be informed and have the ability to inform
ourselves
>> as to what the government is doing in our names and with our money.
>> Therefore, a freedom o
f information act is needed so that we as
citizens,
>> not subjects, can exercise our informed consent. To the extent that
we
>> lack information and cannot find out information, we lose our
ability to
>> give our free consent. As we lose that ability, we lose our ability
to
>> function as citizens and become subjects.
>>
>> The government intended the act to make government, and its
organisation
>> including the NHS, to be open and accountable. The act intends to
shift
>> the balance between the individual and the state towards the
individual
>> by
>> making the state more accountable to the people.
>>
>
>
> Ian Buckland
> Managing Director
> Keep IT Legal Ltd
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