The address I have for you is:
"Porkly Air Displays, The Flying Sty, Somewhere over The Rainbow, Obviously
not Kansas"
It still seems pretty far, you know! I feel I should rush. It's only
polite
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Dodgson
Sent: 25 February 2005 13:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
I am sorry, given I am Lord Lucan I can advise I have no recollection of you
existing, so no need to rush!
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tim Trent
Sent: 25 February 2005 12:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
I am going to ask the UKIC for advice and guidance :) When I get it I will
ensure we all get it.
I must dash. I have to saddle Shergar and gallop to a meeting with Lord
Lucan
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bownes David (CEX)
Sent: 25 February 2005 12:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
Good points, Tim.
As far as I know, there is no freely available copy of the Data Protection
Act 1998 (as amended). The UKIC website does indeed point to the original
version of the Act which isn't much good since it has been extensively
amended.
You could argue that it isn't much good in whatever state but I'm not going
there.
The legal publishers do good business with lawyers producing correct, up to
the minute, copies of legislation but their services are pricey. They are
very good, though - especially the online versions.
On the HMSO website (
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/legislation/about_legislation.htm )there is this
warning: "... All legislation published on this website is published as
enacted or made. Users should therefore verify for themselves whether
legislation is in force or whether it has been amended or repealed by
subsequent legislation. ...". The HMSO site is pointed to from the UKIC
site and is sometimes useful, provided you bear the warning in mind.
For mere mortals, finding out the exact current state of law can be very
complex, if not impossible.
Sorry for the downbeat response - it's not going home time yet and facts
like these are depressing!
David Bownes
Data Protection and Security Officer, Sheffield City Council, Chief
Executive's Directorate, Corporate Finance, PO Box 1283, Sheffield S1 1UJ.
0114 2736891
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Trent [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 February 2005 12:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
Right. Now bear with me. I am a natural blond, albeit now going blond for
the second time! Obviously I need people to speak very s l o w l y and use
short words :) There is a serious point to this, of course, since many
people are *very* part time in this field, and they must be screaming
"arrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no!" at this point
We have a very charming gentleman known as the UKIC with lots of lovely
people in a pleasant office in Wilmslow. Wisely he does not place the
DPA1998 on his site. He simply links to it. But he offers advice on
interpretation.
Either on his site, or anywhere else "obvious", is "the DPA 1998 as modified
by other legislation" available, or does one simply have to realise suddenly
that the "Import of Sea Fish From Switzerland's Coastline Act 2005" has
modified the DPA 1998 and to do this by having an inexplicably deep interest
and sudden in Swiss Sea Fisheries?
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bownes David (CEX)
Sent: 25 February 2005 11:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
Ahh, I see the confusion.
All you need to look at is the Data Protection Act, not FOI. In this
particular case, the FOI Act simply changed the DP Act. In fact, the change
has nothing whatever to do with FOI; the FOI Act was simply someone's idea
of a convenient legislative opportunity.
So, the new Section 7(3) sits wholly within the DPA, no matter what its
source.
There is no conflict between the old 7(3) and the new one - the new one is
it, the old one has gone.
Another message - if you are looking at law always make sure it is up to
date - there are sometimes a frightening number of changes made.
Also, as this is a change to Data Protection law, it affects everyone
subject to it, public, private or whatever.
I'm not a lawyer either. A misspent few years is my excuse!
David Bownes
Data Protection and Security Officer, Sheffield City Council, Chief
Executive's Directorate, Corporate Finance, PO Box 1283, Sheffield S1 1UJ.
0114 2736891
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Trent [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 February 2005 11:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
Now I am about to display radiant ignorance. But that's ok, because others
will want to display the same stuff and are too shy :). I am also not a
lawyer. Or in net speak "IANAL" (and yes I suppose I could be accused of
being part of that acronym!
Do we start by looking at FOI and DP and seeing which law the request was
made under? Or do we start by saying "I am a private corporation and I
perceive that FOI does not apply to me"?
Assuming FOI to be 100% relevant here, if the request was made under DP, is
the FOI section binding or the DP section?
If unsure, does one opt for the widest (to be on the safe side) or the
narrowest (sucks to you!) of the two apparently conflicting paragraphs?
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bownes David (CEX)
Sent: 25 February 2005 11:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement f
or further information to locate requested information
Sure can, Tim. There are a great many other examples of exactly this. The
formal process involved is the legislative regime itself. This particular
amendment is contained in primary legislation (the FOI Act) - all the
authority needed.
What is interesting is that like many such amendments, nobody actually
publicises it.
David Bownes
Data Protection and Security Officer, Sheffield City Council, Chief
Executive's Directorate, Corporate Finance, PO Box 1283, Sheffield S1 1UJ.
0114 2736891
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Trent [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 February 2005 11:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement for
further information to locate requested information
Can a section of one act "jus replace" a section of another? I was under
the impression that a formal process had to take place to state this.
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bownes David (CEX)
Sent: 25 February 2005 11:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [data-protection] Identity of a data subject or requirement for
further information to locate requested information
A data controller needs to confirm the identity of someone making an SAR
under Section 7 of the DPA 98. The data controller may need further
information to locate what is being asked for.
Section 7(3) of the Act provides that the data controller need not comply
with an SAR until identity is established or further information is
provided.
How many of you knew that Section 7(3) was completely replaced by Paragraph
1 of Schedule 6 to the Freedom of Information Act 2000?
The new Section 7(3) places a positive duty on data controllers to inform
the data subject of the need for further identity or "location" information.
The duty to comply with the SAR is not removed until the duty to inform is
discharged.
Just a little Friday snippet.
David Bownes
Data Protection and Security Officer, Sheffield City Council, Chief
Executive's Directorate, Corporate Finance, PO Box 1283, Sheffield S1 1UJ.
0114 2736891
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