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DATA-PROTECTION  2005

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Subject:

Re: T-mobile - was Re: (reply) Mobile phone scam warning

From:

Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:02:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (130 lines)

There is a great deal of difference between what is reasonable (your
approach) and what is contractual.

The onus is upon the supplier of tat to prove that you consented.  They need
to prove it to the person who is alleged to have consented.  Most of their
customers are genuine customers and should pay.  Some of their customers
were cheated in some way (Borrowed handset [a friend who thought it was
funny?], cloned SIM card etc etc) and did not consent.  Some of their
customers lie about the consent they gave.  The sole proof is usually a text
message sent from "your" SIM card to their back office system.

The mobile phone company has (presumably) a contract with the supplier of
tat that handles fraudulent acquisition of services. But that contract is
not between them and the user of the phone.  The phone user is stuck between
two powerful organisations.  One is assuming that the user is lying in order
to get out of their contract.  The other is reasonably demanding money for
services that its contract with the supplier assure it have been supplied.

The sum of money is so small that no-one actually cares except the phone
user.  Probably the right vehicle here is the Small Claims procedure in the
County Court.  However the supplier of tat will mount a defence in its local
court and you will have to travel there at your own expense to bring the
case.

I agree with bringing pressure to bear.  I suspect it needs to be via the
industry's regulator though.

-----Original Message-----
From: ALASDAIR WARWOOD [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 12 September 2005 13:51
To: Tim Trent; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: T-mobile - was Re: (reply) Mobile phone scam warning

Surely there is an onus on the mobile phone company to ensure that it is
processing accurate data (Principle 4). So if you tell them you did not
agree to receive and pay for  whatever rubbish they are delivering and
charging for there is an onus on them to validate the data - especially if
the data is causing you (monetary) damage which you ought to be able to
recover. If they choose to do business the way they do (i.e. accept any old
Tom , Dick or Harry's word that you ordered the rubbish to be delivered and
charged for by them they must take the consequences (or am I missing
something?)

Regards

Alasdair

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tim Trent
Sent: 12 September 2005 13:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: T-mobile - was Re: (reply) Mobile phone scam warning

This is a generalisation:

When one contracts with a supplier of SMS message tat the contract to buy is
with the tat supplier.  The contract to pay them is that they receive your
money via your phone bill, which they have contracted with the carrier to
administer.  Your contract with the carrier is to pay your bill and receive
whatever services you are perceived by them to have ordered of your own free
will.  Individual contracts may vary, though.

What we come down to is customer service.  When does the carrier say "Enough
is enough" and get heavily involved in helping its customers against alleged
irregularities by SMS tat suppliers?

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Hadfield
Sent: 12 September 2005 13:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] T-mobile - was Re: (reply) Mobile phone scam
warning

"The contract for supply of SMS tat is not with the carrier, but the tat
supplier, you see.".................."Better to kick the supplier of SAM tat
than the middle man who simply has the mixed fortune to be there."

Is it really correct to say this? Given that (as established in an earlier
post) the phone company is paying the tat supplier and then recouping the
money from their own customer then doesn't this mean that the phone company
is the representative of the tat supplier?

Certainly the phone company isn't simply there by chance. The phone company
could easily refuse to carry the tat messages unless they are paid for by
the supplier, leaving the supplier to bill its legitimate customers.

Regards,
Graham

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