This is all very similar to that stewardess for a US airline who was fired
simply for having a blog. What is discussed by a group of peers in a private
group should be no concern of the employer unless there is reason to believe
that there is a concerted campaign against them or that NDA's are being
breached. Anything else, quite frankly is heavy handed bullying which will
be noticed.
The impact on a business by taking harsh action against its employees will
be probably a lot worse than effects of comments from a few employees. You
only have to look at the effects on McDonalds in the aftermath of McLibel &
look at the way people view Gate Gourmet now.
These things get out and make internet celebrities of those who appear to be
hard done by, any employer would be shooting themselves in the foot by
taking action in these kinds of circumstances.
I think more of this stems from an inherent fear and lack of understanding
of how peers interact with each other online and business wanting to
completely control its public image. I feel those days are on the wain and
will only diminish further as the rest of the country/world go online.
Of course, the other option is for companies to use the internet in the same
way as their staff and customers. Business seems to think of the internet as
one of two things:
1). A sales tool, a place to put adverts or allow customers to purchase
their product or services.
2). A nuisance which staff abuse and should be punished harshly for.
I've seen a number of IT literate companies talking openly to their
customers in newsgroups, forums etc and this has boosted their reputation,
given the company a personality and boosted customer loyalty . This is where
companies should be focusing their attention, not in silencing their staff -
giving them a voice, allowing them to freely talk with customers, suppliers
and counterparts in their industry.
I doubt this will happen.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Duncan Smith
Sent: 23 August 2005 16:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Access to Chat Rooms
I didn't say the employer was right, but the situation is more than just
'water cooler chat'
The (alleged) comments made in the Group are in a permanent electronic form
(stored in the vast vaults of Yahoo, one presumes) and the members of the
group are numerous AND influential. Comments made in the Group could very
well have significant financial/reputational damage to the company if a
member or members of the Group acted on comment they read.
Essentially, the employer is asking for access to the Group so that they can
have a voice to defend any inaccurate comment made and explain their
position.
Duncan
PS No, it's not Gate Gourmet, but boy it could be!
-----Original Message-----
From: Lewis, Chris G. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:17 PM
To: Duncan Smith; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [data-protection] Access to Chat Rooms
Hang on - if I've got this straight, there is a closed Yahoo discussion
group that an employee uses, which is not hosted by the employer. The
employer suspects that the employee is saying nasty things about it on this
closed group.
How is this any different to hearing that someone has been discussing
something at a small gathering of friends at their house, or in the staff
toilets even? Would anyone ever consider this actionable?
I had thought that one of the elements of "defamation" was that the
defamatory statement was "published", and that in order to be considered
"published" it had to reac a sufficient audience to cause the complainant
damage. If I say to my friend "person X is a lying scumbag", and neither of
us ever speak of it again except to tell person X, in private, that such a
thing was said, there is no damage done to person X or their reputation, and
so nothing actionable has occurred. Which seems to be analagous to what is
going on here.
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues on behalf
of Duncan Smith
Sent: Tue 23/08/2005 16:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Access to Chat Rooms
As Ian W points out, correctly, this IS a Yahoo 'closed group'.
This does create problems in how far the employer is allowed to intrude on
the personal life of one of their employees! ECtHR may have something to
say on this if we start 'busting open' private groups.
It also creates problems in that the employer cannot actually point to a
SPECIFIC defamatory comment and therefore ask Yahoo to remove it; they don't
have access to the Group!
This one will probably have to wait until a defamatory comment emerges,
known to have been published in the Group, and then there will be ground to
ask Yahoo to open up the Group.
Let's hope negotiation and common sense prevail before then :-)
Thanks Andrew Cormack for the pointer to JISC - a useful article for
everybody.
Duncan
iCompli Ltd.
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Web: www.icompli.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Welton
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Access to Chat Rooms
If the data on the closed Yahoo groups discussion group were not being used
for personal purposes only, would the rules governing staff
associations/unions apply at all?
Ian W
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