Martin Hoskins on 19 May 2004 at 08:55 said:-

> Perhaps we are merely witnessing two Teutonic plates slowly
> colliding - these plates are comprised of the "data 
> protection evangelists", who wish that data protection 
> legislation was more in accordance with their personal 
> values, 

The Directive attempts to ensure that social groups (organisations) values
are clearly known to data subjects whilst providing some protection for
those individuals values which have been internationally agreed in
negotiation involving most (but not all) philosophical persuasions.  

Interpreting the relevant values to reflect the pertinent circumstances
surrounding the collection of data from a data subject will inevitably
entail some negotiation between the social group and the data subject
involved.  But equally inevitably each party will wish data they control to
singularly reflect their own values. Given that many social groups generally
wish also to impose their own values on data subjects.  (i.e. Religions,
Nation States, Corporate entities) the individuals will be subject to many
objections similar to Martin's point above rather than a recognition of
differing interests in a wider sphere.

and the "data protection conservatives", who wish to 
> adopt a minimalist approach to standardisation.

This appears to be an "I am I, and you are not I; we are shut inside
ourselves and apart from each other." (Mendleson 1999 quoting Auden) type of
issue, which could be more reflective of an approach by the strong who
believe they can adequately protect themselves, and others should also do
so. (The potential for escalating conflict is clear, as is a relationship to
the first point.)

The Directive and DPA placing a degree of control of implementation at the
level of the data subject/data controller is bound to be fraught with the
danger that some interest will bend it to their 'values'.  

What surprised me about Durant was the scale of the intervention by the
particular interests involved.  And it's not even Thursday yet.

Ian W

N.B. RFIDs may well provide some useful case studies to illustrate the
minimalist type approach.  With organisations intending/using RFIDs not
seemingly worried about the privacy of their own data, and RFID scanners
being quite cheaply purchased, opportunities will exist for anybody to scan
whole organisations producing analysable and useful organisational data for
various purposes.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection 
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
> Martin Hoskins
> Sent: 19 May 2004 08:55
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: UK's Data Protection Act Might Not Meet European 
> Union Standa rds
> 
> 
> Perhaps we are merely witnessing two Teutonic plates slowly 
> colliding - these plates are comprised of the "data 
> protection evangelists", who wish that data protection 
> legislation was more in accordance with their personal 
> values, and the "data protection conservatives", who wish to 
> adopt a minimalist approach to standardisation.
> 
> Given the attention we often pay on the open roads to speed 
> limits, it constantly surprises me that some individuals 
> place such an emphasis on the obscure minutiae of European Directives!
> 
> Long live the (UK) courts! Their decisions often bring a 
> smile to my face................
> 
> Yes, I have a Friday feeling aleaady.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Martin Hoskins
> Data Protection Manager
> 
> T-Mobile (UK) Ltd
> Hatfield Business Park
> Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL10 9BW
> +44 (0)7957 234585
> +44 (0)1707 319056 fax

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