Smith, Tony on 13 October 2004 at 09:54 said:-

> I still do not get the point. For the last few decades, if 
> someone owed me money I could take them to court. If there 
> was a judgement against them and they did not pay, I could go 
> back to court and ask who their employer was, what they 
> earned etc. I could then ask for an attachment of earnings 
> order. The court would then write to the employer telling 
> them to deduct money from their wages and pay it into court. 
> This happens on a daily basis in most county courts. Why 
> would I need the NINO?
> 

Very often within the public sector, and I suspect elsewhere, where
difficulty is experienced in achieving an objective in a straightforward
way, a trial period or pilot is formed to identify issues arising. The trial
period often will not have an end date, or balanced measurement criteria to
determine any benefits/problems which may have arisen.  The wording
"proposes the introduction" may indicate such a situation, but without
further facts, that is speculation. 

Details of the 'proposed' data disclosure court order, and the date approval
was granted, together with the documentation supporting the use would be
needed to determine if this particular item fell within that category, or
how any outcomes were considered.

An indicator could well be to determine if a fully agreed and formalised
data disclosure court order mechanism exists today, the purpose the NINO
plays in the data disclosure order, and if the NINO is processed within the
courts service more widely than the restrictive use authorised.

I would suppose the Lord Chancellors or the NINO office DPO may be able to
provide some information.

Ian W

> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection 
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
> Smith, Tony
> Sent: 13 October 2004 09:54
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: References: PQ's on National Insurance numbers etc
> 
> 
> I still do not get the point. For the last few decades, if 
> someone owed me money I could take them to court. If there 
> was a judgement against them and they did not pay, I could go 
> back to court and ask who their employer was, what they 
> earned etc. I could then ask for an attachment of earnings 
> order. The court would then write to the employer telling 
> them to deduct money from their wages and pay it into court. 
> This happens on a daily basis in most county courts. Why 
> would I need the NINO?
> 
> Tony
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ian Welton
> Sent: 12 October 2004 20:24
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: References: PQ's on National Insurance numbers etc
> 
> 
> Kirsty E Gray on 12 October 2004 at 17:33 said:-
> 
> > Seems one of the less contentious extensions to use of NINO
> > to me,
> 
> If correct it appears decisions have been made that civil debt is more
> urgently important than pressures aimed at maintaining the 
> accuracy of the
> NI database.
> 
> With the civil debt having been such a long term problem there is no
> contention.
> 
> Perhaps the civil debt problem being under the Lord Chancellor and the
> accuracy of the NI database sitting elsewhere no difficulties 
> are perceived
> at the moment; or maybe the national ID will answer any 
> problems before any
> resultant database accuracy difficulties can emerge.
> 
> 
> Ian W
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> > issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> > Kirsty E Gray
> > Sent: 12 October 2004 17:33
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: References: PQ's on National Insurance numbers etc
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:24:33 +0100, Ian Welton
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In that case it would seem probable that civil debtors are
> > to be pursued
> > via
> > >their national insurance payment point.
> >
> > I believe that is the long-term plan - following 'Access to
> > Justice' review
> > report by Lord Woolf last year. Loads of recommendations
> > including transfer
> > of responsibilities from litigants to the courts to reduce
> > cost / delay /
> > inequality in civil cases.
> >
> > Present attachment to earnings provisions for things like
> > fines (criminal &
> > contempt), child maintenance, etc. to be extended to include
> > civil damages
> > so courts would also need NINO for that purpose.
> >
> > Seems one of the less contentious extensions to use of NINO
> > to me, regards,
> > Kirsty.
> >
> > Kirsty E Gray
> > Access to Information Advisor
> > Commission for Social Care Inspection
> >
> > Note: comments for discussion and debate only and do not necessarily
> > reflect the corporate position of CSCI nor constitute legal advice.
> >
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