if anyone here is on the UMHAN (University Mental Health Advisers Network)
list, it might be worth circulating this to that group for their thoughts.
>From: Bryan Coleman <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff."
> <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Any advice?
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:21:06 +0100
>
>I think it would okay for the university medical centre to be involved. I
>worked with a student who was eventually 'pronounced' as unfit to attend by
>a university doctor. It wasn't pleasant, but the condition of her return
>was that she would have to be cleared by a university doctor, and might be
>referred back to that doctor for a further assessment if there were
>problems in the future.
>
>At least that meant there were agreed conditions and involving the
>university doctor was very useful as she could liaise with the student's
>own doctor (with her permission of course).
>
>Bryan
>Brunel Uni, West London
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of fiona mcgrother
>Sent: 20 July 2005 09:35
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Any advice?
>
>
>I hear what you are saying, and I know that many alternative interventions
>have been proved more effective than medication, however, in this case, I'm
>not sure assumptions have been made. Paddy made reference to a specific
>case where medication was the treatment in question. We certainly don't
>have the right to insist on treatment, however, as educational
>institutions,
>we have so many responsibilities that we are in a position where if
>someones
>behaviour is consistently disrupting the experience of others trying to
>succeed, we can make decisions about whether it is appropriate to re-admit
>someone to the university. Vital in all of this, is that the student is
>given access to all of the support that is available, be it mental health
>co-ordinator, counselling or disability support. Monitoring someones
>progress as I see it is not about 'making sure they are complying with
>treatment' more that we talk about all of the issues, how they are feeling
>and what is important to them at that time.
>hope this makes sense
>Fiona
>
>
>
> >From: Anne Berquier <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their support
>staff."
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Any advice?
> >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:24:21 +1000
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am a bit concerned about some of the assumptions here. Firstly, I don't
> >think we have the right to insist that someone receive treatment for a
> >condition, particularly when the treatment has such serious and often
> >life-threatening side-effects. Secondly, it is assumed that people with
> >mental illness will be well if they take their medication. This is
>patently
> >inaccurate. I have worked in a mental institution for people with chronic
> >mental illnesses where not taking medication was not an option and those
> >people remained extremely unwell and very psychotic at times. In fact, we
> >would not really need mental hospitals at all if the medication worked
>for
> >everyone at all times.
> >
> >I understand the concern for other people in this situation and of course
> >all efforts should be made to keep other people safe. However, I would be
> >very concerned if we included monitoring compliance with treatment in our
> >role. Most of the literature on violence and mental illness states that,
> >statistically, we are as much at risk of assault from people of both
>sexes
> >between the ages of 15 and 25 as we are from people with a mental
>illness.
> >Alcohol certainly increases that risk in everyone and it may be possible
>to
> >focus on drunken behaviour on campus rather than the presence or
>otherwise
> >of a mental illness.
> >
> >I also have many students who refuse conventional western treatment for
> >other conditions e.g. adrenal gland tumour, diabetes, etc. As this may be
> >associated with a medical emergency, do we then extend the treatment
> >condition for enrolment to these people?
> >
> >What do other people think about this? I realise that the mental health
> >legislation may also differ between countries and this may also affect
>what
> >we can and cannot do.
> >Regards,
> >Anne
> >
> >Anne Berquier
> >Disability Adviser
> >Student Support Services
> >The University of Queensland
> >
> >Telephone: (07) 3365 1757
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of fiona mcgrother
> >Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 2:28 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Any advice?
> >
> >Hi there,
> >it would be interesting to know if there were certain conditions were
> >placed on the student prior to their expulsion. I.e. did someone say to
> >them
> >that they may be allowed to return if they had medical evidence to
>support
> >that?
> >
> >The most helpful condition, I feel is to ask the student to have very
> >regular contact with a member of staff. I have been a point of contact
>in
> >this context previously (in my former role as mental health
>co-ordinator).
> >This has been very helpful in terms of assessing how things are going and
> >whether or not someone is taking their treatment seriously. I have
> >occasionally got the students permission to liaise with the teaching
>staff.
> >
> >This helps to clarify any issues there may be on all sides.
> >
> >I would always say, however, that if a student is not taking their
> >treatment
> >seriously and is not taking the appropriate support that is made
>available
> >and accessible to them, then the instituion has a duty to all its other
> >students as well and it is perfectly reasonable in some circumstances to
> >look at the options, one of which may be a disciplinary one.
> >
> >Fiona
> >
> > >From: "Turner, Paddy" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: "Discussion list for disabled students and their support
> >staff."
> >
> > > <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Any advice?
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:06:04 +0100
> > >
> > >Hello all,
> > >The situation is this:
> > >A student with a mental health difficulty, taking medication, was asked
> > >to leave the course as a result of violent and aggressive episodes
> > >brought on by alcohol abuse and failing to take the medication.
> > >No-one was physically hurt although many students were shaken up by the
> > >episodes, one student left the course through fear as a result of these
> > >behaviours and property was damaged.
> > >
> > >The student has now requested to return to the course and has medical
> > >evidence stating that s/he is fit to return, that s/he now understands
> > >the consequences of failing to take the medication and of drinking to
> > >excess.
> > >
> > >The tutor responsible for re-admitting is, however, convinced that s/he
> > >will be unable to refrain from further outbursts under the pressure of
> > >the course and is extremely anxious for himself and for the other
> > >students. In addition the course is studio-based meaning that students
> > >are left unsupervised sometimes quite late into the evening.
> > >
> > >Clearly, in theory this student should be given another chance, but
> > >there are quite genuine concerns for the safety of others. My questions
> > >are:
> > >Has anyone had a similar experience with an outcome that worked or
> > >didn't work, and why?
> > >Can anyone suggest any support or fall-backs to ensure the safety of
> > >the other students? Could the H&S Act be invoked to prevent
> > >re-admission, do you think? Could conditions be placed on his return,
> > >either limiting access or perhaps a suspended sentence as it were, with
> > >regard to exclusion?
> > >
> > >Any advice gratefully received on or off-list
> > >
> > >Paddy
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