Your favourite principle is the 8th?!! We should have an Alan
Partridge/Radio Norwich style "hot topic" poll....... what is your
favourite DP principle?
Mine would have to be 6th - power to the people, and all that.....
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: 13 July 2004 11:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
info
Ian
I would never say that the First Principle should be ignored - it's my
second favourite after the Eighth. Fairness is fairness. It involves
deciding whether an action is fair in relation to the person whose
information might be shared. Of course, I would have expected that
laywers
should be consulted on issues of human rights, common law and natural
justice, but I'm intrigued to find someone who thinks they can be dealt
with
by a DPO.
It's easy to create an orthodoxy where sharing is evil, consent is king,
and
Data Protection is made as complicated as possible so that only a
limited
number of people can understand it and give advice about it. It's harder
to
attempt to make the thing work in practice, bearing in mind that
legislation
and practicality means that data sometimes gets shared, and for good
reasons.
Tim
> ----------
> From: Ian Mansbach[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: Ian Mansbach
> Sent: 13 July 2004 10:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 -
sharing
> info
>
> Tim
>
> Surely you aren't saying one should ignore the First Principle because
> some
> of the issues are "massive and disputed". I'm intrigued to know
exactly
> what
> considerations are included in a Wigan Fairness Moment?
>
> Ian Mansbach
> Mansbachs
> Data Protection Practitioners
> [log in to unmask]
> phone: 0871 716 5060
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> Sent: 13 July 2004 09:58
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
info
>
> Ian
> Because the latter two are massive and disputed concepts, and I have
also
> heard huge arguments about the interpretation of the former. If you're
> suggesting that the majority of DP officers pause before giving any
advice
> and have the Human Rights Moment, then the Common Law Moment, and then
the
> Natural Justice moment, and then deliver the advice (all of this on
the
> telephone), I'm either incredibly in awe of them, or a teeny bit
> sceptical.
> I do consider whether the response to any given case seems fair, but
> running
> through the implications of Natural Justice is a bit much for me on a
> Tuesday morning.
> Tim
> > ----------
> > From: Ian Mansbach[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Reply To: Ian Mansbach
> > Sent: 13 July 2004 09:39
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
> > info
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > How can you not include human rights, common law and natural justice
> > when considering fairness and lawfulness?
> >
> > Ian Mansbach
> > Mansbachs
> > Data Protection Practitioners
> > [log in to unmask]
> > phone: 0871 716 5060
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> > Sent: 13 July 2004 08:50
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Crime and Disorder Act 1998 - sharing
> > info
> >
> >
> > I'm probably being argumentative for the sake of it (I don't like
> > Tuesdays), but this approach worries me. Either data-sharing is
legal,
> > or it isn't. Either you can satisfy the DP conditions, or you can't.
> > There is no escape from that. Even if you don't ask for consent, you
> > may very well have to tell
> > people what you're doing or likely to be doing with their data.
However,
> > to
> > start from the presumption that all data sharing must include
consent
> just
> > reduces the options. It puts the DP officer in the likely position
of
> > being
> > the person in the room who always says no. In my opinion, there is
> nothing
> > worse for an organisation aspiring to be DP compliant than the DP
> officer
> > being associated entirely with the word "No." If you say no (or
> 'consent')
> > all the time, it doesn't make the organisation more compliant, it
just
> > makes
> > it more likely that people won't ask for advice any more. Besides,
> consent
> > is useless if you don't have the vires to share in the first place.
> >
> > Is it unfair to suggest that your view is doctrinal - i.e. nothing
is
> > legitimate without consent? What I took from your answer is that
there
> > isn't a substantial public interest test, not a formal one. Now, you
> > mention "proportionality rules". Where are these rules? If every
piece
> > of advice I gave had to include considerations of human rights,
common
> > law and natural justice, I wouldn't leave the house.
> >
> > Tim Turner
> > Data Protection Officer
> > Wigan Council
>
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