Aren't we rather getting hung up on the words rather than the spirit of
it all ?
Hmmm, that is exactly my response directed to the Law Lords to the Durant
ruling!
Martin
Martin Gibson
Customer Relations Team/Data Protection Officer
ICT Services
Buckinghamshire County Council
01296 382907
[log in to unmask]
www.buckscc.gov.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Henderson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 September 2004 14:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction betwe en DPA and FOI
Aren't we rather getting hung up on the words rather than the spirit of
it all ?
There is a general presumption of disclosure under FOI and accessibility
to your own information under DP. We can happily chose to give a person
access to any information about themselves that FOI might exempt as long
as we hold true to the DP principles.
I'm just hoping that when someone actually gets round to doing something
about the DP amendment in Scotland (hint, hint !) they word it a bit
more clearly....
Donald
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Watson, Patrick
Sent: 09 September 2004 13:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Employee manual records: Interaction
betwe en DPA and FOI
Section 68 FOI extends the definition of personal data
Section 70 (1) FOI then exempts this unstructured personal data from
most of the DPA principles except for principle 4 and the subject rights
in principle 6.
It then goes on to exempt manual employment records from the remaining
principles (principle 4 and the subject rights in principle 6) -
therefore no data protection principles apply.
We cannot have access to our own employment records under DPA but does
this also mean that manual employment records don't have to accurate?
Manual employment records from Jan 2005 will be personal data but simply
not accessible. Because they are personal data they cannot be accessed
by the data subject under FOIA because of exemption 40.
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Pounder Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 September 2004 12:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Employee manual records: Interaction
between DPA and FOI
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be privileged.
Please refer to the notice at the foot of this e-mail before reading any
further.
Plain INGLISH as she is spooked
Employees do not get access to manual employee records about themselves
unless the records form part of a Relevant Filing System as the records
are not data
Any information which relates to a living individual held by a public
authority is personal data (but not in the context of employment)
C
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sally Justice
Sent: 09 September 2004 12:22
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
As the IC states very clearly that he supports "plain english" could
someone please explain in plain english in a very succinct manner
exactly how the Acts should be interpreted as I am now completely
confused and even more so after reading the various acts on the web!
Thanks
Sally
Ian Welton wrote:
>DREW Nic on 09 September 2004 at 09:31 said:-
>
>
>
>>Section 70(1) of the FOIA amends section 33 of the DPA and basically
>>provides an exemption to accessing Personnel files. If this wasn't in
>>the FOIA, that Act would give public sector employees more rights of
>>access to their personnel files than those in the private sector.
>>
>>
>
>Unless the title to the FOI s.70 - "Exemptions applicable to certain
>manual data held by public authorities." has no real meaning I would
>dispute that statement.
>
>If you are correct I am thoroughly confused about the broader affects
>of the FOI to the private sector.
>
>Ian W
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DREW Nic
>>Sent: 09 September 2004 09:31
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>Patrick
>>Section 70(1) of the FOIA amends section 33 of the DPA and basically
>>provides an exemption to accessing Personnel files. If this wasn't in
>>the FOIA, that Act would give public sector employees more rights of
>>access to their personnel files than those in the private sector.
>>
>>Nic
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Watson, Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 09 September 2004 08:48
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>Chris
>>You have confused me with your latest comment. It seems to contradict
>>your newsletter unless I have misunderstood your comment below. My
>>understanding from your newsletter is that a former employee could not
>>access his chronologically ordered manual personnel file under DPA
>>because it is not a
>>relevant filing system. The same person could however access
>>this file
>>under the FOIA from Jan 2005.
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Pounder Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 08 September 2004 19:50
>>To: Watson, Patrick; [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>
>>The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be privileged.
>>Please refer to the notice at the foot of this e-mail before reading
>>any further.
>>
>>
>>
>>If the discussion is about employee manual records, then FOIA is
>>irrelevant
>>
>>The Durant judgment means that employees will only gain access to
>>manual employee records, if these records form a relevant filing
>>system. The OIC has gone on the record that there are not many
>>relevant filing systems
>>
>>C
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Watson, Patrick
>>Sent: 08 September 2004 08:28
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>The point that I am trying to clarify is whether chronologically
>>maintained manual personnel files escape disclosure under both the DPA
>>and FOIA. When I put this to OIC I was told that chronologically
>>ordered manual personnel files did not meet the definition of a
>>relevant filing system and were not disclosable. I then asked whether
>>a data subject could access this same personnel file under FOIA and
>>was told no as it contained personal data. The OIC cannot have it both
>>ways.
>>
>>There is no doubt that manual personnel files are crammed full of
>>personal data and this makes the Durant decision illogical. Personnel
>>files probably hold more personal data than any other file in the
>>organisation and current and former staff will find bizarre that they
>>cannot get any form of access to it under DPA or FOIA. Have we got a
>>situation that excludes this employment area from any effective
>>scrutiny by data subjects.
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: DREW Nic [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 07 September 2004 15:32
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [data-protection] Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>FOIA introduces a new category of data (category e ) into the DPA, but
>>only for public authorities. This category will widen access to
>>personal data,that Durant might have prevented, but has an exemption
>>for access to personnel data. See sections 68 and 69 of the FOIA.
>>
>>Nic
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Watson, Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 07 September 2004 10:56
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>> Can colleagues help me to clarify some issues relating to the
>>interaction between data protection and FOI. Many manual files
>>including personnel files do not meet the Court of Appeal (Durant)
>>definition of a relevant filing system and are therefore not
>>disclosable under the subject access provisions of the DPA. If a file
>>is not considered to be personal data then what access is there to
>>this file by the data subject through FOI?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Patrick
>>
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