In terms of tools you might find this useful to know about:
http://www.inftyproject.org/en/index.html
I think others on the list might be able to give more feedback on its merits or otherwise but I've seen demos on a Computer Camp for blind students.
Alistair
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fisher, Kathryn
Sent: 26 April 2013 13:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NMH support in London - advice please
Thanks all for the very helpful comments and advice, especially to Emma, regarding this very specialised field. We are in the process of talking in more detail with both the student and the academic department - it seems the student uses JAWS currently but has also been reliant on human support/whiteboards etc. for previous study in less specialised subjects. I'll need to investigate the whether LaTex or MathType could be accessible via JAWS unless anyone has a quick answer to this?
Clearly a lot more investigation and discussion needed at our end but the information provided so far has been so useful in giving some starting points, many thanks all!
Have a good weekend
Kathryn
Kathryn Fisher
Disability Coordinator
Disability Services
University House
The University of Warwick
Coventry CV4 8UW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)24 76573734
Email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Emma Cliffe
Sent: 26 April 2013 10:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NMH support in London - advice please
I would start with the US National Federation of the Blind lists. They will likely be able to point you in the right direction for such communities of practice as Alistair suggestions (or may themselves be one). I would try:
* Blindmath: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
* nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
as my feeling is that these are the most closely connected subjects which have lists. The full listing of nfb lists is at:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo
To support what Alistair has said I should perhaps have been clearer - from the exposure I have had (as someone with a mathematics and theoretical computer science background) the symbol set of symbolic logic falls within the comprehensive symbol list for LaTeX and I think, but would check with the department, falls within the list of symbols in more common use in higher level mathematics (available in MathType?). It seems highly likely to me that writers in symbolic logic use LaTeX or MathType etc. when preparing documents (something to check with the department). In this case the options for accessing content are the same as those for mathematics and theoretical computer science. I am less clear regarding the two dimensional structures within their notation. I would be most concerned about how to work with any large two dimensional structures with undefined or multiple reading orders (which each give different information) and which contain notation - such as trees, lattices, commuting diagrams, semantic tableau or similar, but you would need a symbolic logician of the right type to tell you if this is a concern. From experience these structures are especially hard to work with both electronically and with human support. For anything of that nature, the human support would have to understand the meaning of the structure and that means they might need a very specific background indeed. I imagine such structures could also be difficult to navigate with confidence in very large print without building some sort of strategy. Secondary to that would be the question of how to produce any such structures effectively. However, this is going into detail that is not relevant to many so please do make contact off list if you feel any of this is pertinent.
Kind regards,
Emma
-----Original Message-----
From: Alistair McNaught [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 April 2013 07:30
To: [log in to unmask]; Emma Cliffe
Subject: RE: NMH support in London - advice please
Emma makes very important points here. This is a highly specialised field of accessibility support, never mind a highly specialised field of study!
Critical to any support will be a thorough understanding of the current skill levels (screenreader? Braille? MathML? LaTeX?) and strategies employed by the student in getting to this point. The nature and stability of the sight problem may also be a relevant factor if there is stable usable sight you might get away with a very large screen and very high magnification.
I don't know the answers to this but do any Maths and Science specialists on this list know of any VI/STEM communities of practice where VI practitioners and advise and support one another? It may not be a day-to-day solution but it could be a contributory factor to maintaining confidence in the face of the adversities that are almost certainly going to be there!
Alistair
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Emma Cliffe
Sent: 25 April 2013 15:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: NMH support in London - advice please
Dear Kathryn,
There are methods of working with a screenreader or stand alone programmes with self voicing ability which can cope to an extent with many advanced mathematical notations. The more likely difficulties/costs
are:
* gaining access to the right tools
* work to acquire or transform resources with such content into a suitable format for the tools to work
* the student learning how to work with those formats and tools effectively to support their studies The above will almost certainly require support but not necessarily so much in person and over time the number of hours will likely drop. The right working methods are dependent on how the student currently works with text, their technical confidence and the ways their department tend to create documents.
http://mathstore.ac.uk/headocs/InclusiveCurricula_0.pdf contains some starting points including papers on accessing mathematical content and a list of resources. If you wish to get in contact off list I will be able to direct you to targeted resources specific to the query - but I would need further information.
Beyond that, I can't help with most of the rest of the below other than express two fears capturing why I feel a careful exploration of the available technology for accessing symbolic content would be needed.
Firstly, that you will find it very difficult to recruit suitably qualified support at that pay rate. Secondly, a PhD student might find it very hard going if they do not develop effective methods to read widely in their subject, work through problems, write and generally communicate with their peers and supervisor.
Kind regards,
Emma
Emma Cliffe
Mathematics and Statistics Resource Centre Development Officer University of Bath
On 24/04/13 18:15, Fisher, Kathryn wrote:
> I'd be grateful for any help and advice on a challenging situation
> regarding some NMH support - it's not your run of the mill request!
> Any information that might help from colleagues would be much appreciated.
>
> We have a student who is shortly hoping to start a PhD with us at
> Warwick. The PhD is in Symbolic Logic, part-time, through our
> Philosophy department. As I now know, this is a rather specialised
> technical subject, closer to advanced mathematics in many ways.
>
> The student has a severe visual impairment and this presents a few
> logistical challenges. For example the symbols used in this subject
> are too specialised for any screen reading software (or at least any
> that we are aware of), meaning that that symbols would need to be
> written out for him on to a whiteboard or on to large pieces of paper.
> It seems that any support worker working with him would need to have a
> Philosophy, Maths or at least a scientific background.
>
> The situation is more complicated as the student wishes to remain
> based in London (Teddington) for compelling family reasons. We are
> therefore in the position of having to think about the best way we
> might recruit a suitable support worker for him in London and also
> try to find somewhere that it may be possible for him to work with his
> support worker close to his home.
>
> As a part-time student, the amount of DSA funding available is going
> to be limited to around £10,260 for each year of his course, we have a
> fairly limited budget at the university to go over this amount. The
> student is anticipating needing 3-4 hours per day for most of the year.
> Whilst we employ our support workers at around £10.25 an hour in
> Warwick, of course London rates will be higher - £11.50 has been
> suggested - not sure if this is realistic?
>
> Do colleagues have any view on how easy it might be to find such a
> support worker? We would consider working with agencies if the costs
> are not prohibitive so contact from agency based colleagues would be
> welcome on or off list - to [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> please.
>
> In the unlikely event of any London based colleagues having "spare"
> support workers who might be available and suitable, please do get in
> touch!
>
> The other issue is a suitable venue for working with a support worker.
> Whilst I'm reasonably confident colleagues in London based
> institutions would grant him access to their libraries and communal
> study spaces through SCONUL or other arrangements, we have advised the
> student that his expectation of being able to use a separate room with
> a white board at an institution he is not registered at, is probably
> unrealistic. I have emailed RNIB to see if they have any study spaces
> in London that they could make available to him, but any other
> suggestions would be welcome.
>
> I'm sure you'll appreciate it's quite a conundrum so any
> help/advice/sympathy is much appreciated!
>
> Best wishes
>
> Kathryn
>
> Kathryn Fisher
>
> Disability Coordinator
>
> Disability Services
>
> University House
>
> The University of Warwick
>
> Coventry CV4 8UW, UK
>
> Tel: +44 (0)24 76573734
>
> Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
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