Thanks paul,
I feel bouyed up by the knowledge I am not alone!
Si

>>> Paul Ticher <[log in to unmask]> 10 May 2011 10:11 >>>
I have the same problem with HR departments in many of the
organisations I 
work with.  They refuse to participate in HR audits, or do so only 
grudgingly, and they produce material on Data Protection for the staff

handbook which purports to cover the whole issue but in fact only
addresses 
how they handle staff records, not how staff are supposed to handle
personal 
data in their work.  They also draw up key paperwork, such as the 
confidentiality section of the staff contract, without reference to the
rest 
of the organisation.  Bitter?  Moi?

HR departments, however, feel put upon because their professional
expertise 
isn't always recognised or appreciated by other managers.  Maybe they
are 
just exercising some muscle when they get the chance.

The ideal solution would be to get onside with HR (and possibly other 
'support' functions) and stand together against the rest of the 
organisation's lack of appreciation!


Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Macauley" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Internal FOI and the release of PD of a staff member


> reply to Simon Howarth on the DP jisc pages and cross posted to FOI
> jisc.
> Thanks Simon,
> I did cross post and got some useful replies.
> I think I confused people a little though, including yourself.
>
> The applicant is a manager of a specific area but the request was
for
> stats on special leave accross the whole council, including in broad
> terms, why the leave was given and for what reasons..but the
applicant
> herself made clear that she only wanted non personal data.
>
> HR it seems have given this but in doing so have identified some
> personal data to the applicant (which they wont give me because they
> claim staff in confidence..schmucks!)  There argument seems to be
that
> it was ok to release to the applicant (even tho it was not asked
for)
> because they knew this person's special leave data (am assuming
because
> the person was working under the applicant at some point) All very
> dubious but until I get the full info from HR I don't know but it
> stinks.
>
> Sue, reassuring to know it's not me with a persecution complex re
HR.
> The head of HR has constantly treated DP and my post as DP officer
with
> little more than annoying disdain, obviously something they can
handle
> themselves and I am merely here for dealing with DP and FOI for
> the'other' staff who are not fortunate enough to be in HR.  Call me
> bitter...
>
> hence why a) I am hacked off they bypassed me for a ridiculous
> rationale but b) more so because it appears they have released some
> third party personal data without informing/consulting the data
subject
> or ME!.
>
> I was trying to get some moral support and feedback before I go in
> studs up to the Corpse gov director.
>
> Cheers Si mac.
>
>
>
>
>>>> Simon Howarth <[log in to unmask]> 10 May 2011 08:34:42
>>>>
> Apologies for previous blank reply!
>
> Simon - you may want to cross post this into the Freedom of
Information
> forum, many people read both but you may have a some people on FOI
who
> do not read the DP forum.
>
> I am a little confused as to why the line manager is asking for the
> information under the FOIA when they seem to be able to get the
> information in a professional capacity? Is this right? In which case
I
> would suggest that given it is personal data then the individual
could
> be asked to consent to release of the information, otherwise I would
> suggest it's a Section 40 and would be subject to a public test (in
this
> instance). Has HR done a public interest test? You could ask them
for
> the process or the results of the decision made, if they are doing
your
> job for you!
>
> Simon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Simon Macaulay
> Sent: 09 May 2011 16:57
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: [data-protection] Internal FOI and the release of PD of a
> staff member
>
> Hello all, grateful for some advice.
> I received an internal FOI request from a staff member about special
> leave allocation, criteria and statistics etc.
> I forwarded to HR who eventually sent a response..but bypassing me
> straight to the applicant! (I beleatedly found this out when
enquiring
> about the request re time).
>
> Their reasoning for this was that:
>  'I did not copy you in as the information provided more or less
> identified an individual, whom ******* knows about -   making it
staff
> in confidence'
>
> I am pretty sure their rationale for an indiviudual's SPD to be
> identified in this instance is that the applicant is the line manager
of
> the person identified and thus already knows their special leave
> details.
>
> However......Couple of issues here
>
> 1,  what do you think about excluding the DP/FOI Officer from seeing
> the actual information supplied, be it sensitive PD or not.  Seems
> nonsensical to me, unless HR want to take on the job of DP officer
> (they're welcome btw)
>
> 2, and the one I want some help on is:
> even if the applicant knows the subject and the subject's special
leave
> history should the subject's explicit consent still be sought?
> Would it be classed as fair and lawful to process (e.g. disclose,
> release) by releasing the information in the different context of an
FOI
> request to an applicant who already knows that data as a line
manager?
>
> Should the subject in fact be explicitly given the option to release
in
> this context given that their line manager is potentially interested
in
> special leave criteria and stats possibly with a negative view on
the
> subject's special leave?(hypothetical assumption).
> The alternative to refusal of consent being an aggregated return
that
> makes it impossible to identify which staff member is taking lots of
> special leave in a specific branch.
>
> All help appreciated.
>
> Ta, Si mac.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html 
>     If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] 
> All user commands can be found at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm 
> Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the
> list owner
>              [log in to unmask] 
>  Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing
your
> needs
>        To receive these emails in HTML format send the command:
>         SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] 
>   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html 
>     If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] 
> All user commands can be found at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm 
> Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the
> list owner
>              [log in to unmask] 
>  Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing
your
> needs
>        To receive these emails in HTML format send the command:
>         SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] 
>   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html 
>     If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] 
> All user commands can be found at 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm 
> Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the
list 
> owner
>              [log in to unmask] 
>  Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing
your 
> needs
>        To receive these emails in HTML format send the command:
>         SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] 
>   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html 
     If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask] 
All user commands can be found at
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm 
 Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the
list owner
              [log in to unmask] 
  Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your
needs
        To receive these emails in HTML format send the command:
         SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask] 
   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
     If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
All user commands can be found at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
 Any queries about sending or receiving messages please send to the list owner
              [log in to unmask]
  Full help Desk - please email [log in to unmask] describing your needs
        To receive these emails in HTML format send the command:
         SET data-protection HTML to [log in to unmask]
   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^