Coming back to Brenda's original question I would have to say that the
'policy' of withholding based on consent is accordingly seriously flawed
It is not really a consent issue save to the extent that if you consider
serious harm would flow from disclosure obviously you should not
'consent' - but as will be seen from that statement even there consent
is in truth irrelevant, as if given it would have to be ignored !
Phillip Bradshaw
Information Manager
Democratic Services
Room CY4A, County Hall
EMail: [log in to unmask]
Phone: 029 2087 3346
Mobile : 07890 265987
Fax: 029 2087 3349
Fax: 029 2087 3349
"If councillors and council officers are to be held to account, the
press and public need access to the information that will enable them to
do it. If town halls want to reduce the amount they spend on responding
to freedom of information requests they should consider making the
information freely available in the first place."
Eric Pickles, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: 08 December 2010 11:14
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Section 47
I think there is a considerable difference between people having a
reasonable expectation of privacy for their personal business at work,
and privacy being relevant to the identity and official actions of an
employee. The Human Rights Act doesn't give a right to privacy, but a
right to respect for home life, family and so on. So my employer
listening into my calls to my girlfriend raises significant privacy
implications - my employer identifying me as the chair of the Records
Management meeting I just attended does not.
The Hunt issue is a good example - a person may be disproportionately
affected, both in and out of work, by getting involved in a contentious
work-related issue. But I don't see that as privacy so much as the
fairness aspects of DP, or just health and safety. In an FOI world, we
should generally approach our work with the expectation that we will be
publicly associated with it and accountable for it, unless there are
specific reasons not to.
Tim Turner
Information Governance Manager
NHS Manchester
1st floor
Parkway 3
Parkway Business Centre
Princess Road
Manchester, M14 7LU
[log in to unmask]
DDI: 0161 765 4174
Please note I only work on Tuesdays and one other day each week, so a
response may be delayed.
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Baines, Jonathan
Sent: 08 December 2010 10:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Section 47
Lawrence
Thanks, and yes, I take the point about police officers, but I would
hold to the points I made.
I agree that the relation between privacy rights and employment is a
complex and developing one, and that it can be dangerously easy to
arrive at a proposition that an employee is a sub-category (and a lesser
one) of a private citizen...!
Jonathan
Jonathan Baines
Legal and Democratic Services
Buckinghamshire County Council
tel: 01296 383681
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Serewicz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday 08 December 2010 10:44
To: Baines, Jonathan; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [data-protection] Section 47
Jonathan,
Please be aware that police officers are not employees. They are office
holders. Each police officer holds an office. I realize the point is
subtle, but holding an office means they have a different role and
status.
For example, for salary disclosure they have to be treated differently
under the pay disclosure legislation because they cannot be treated as a
class and have to be handled individually.
The privacy rights would entail their role outside of the police force.
We are not private in work in the same way that my privacy increases
once I leave work. I can claim certain privacy rights outside of work
(inside of work) because the two cannot be disentangled in all cases.
Furthermore, the disclosure would be to the whole world and that would
have an effect on privacy beyond their work role. For example, if they
all retired the next day, the publication would infringe their privacy.
What this suggests is the right to privacy, as being developed through
the courts, is going to be a HUGE problem for information governance,
in particular data protection, because privacy is so nebulous that it
allows for any sorts of interpretations.
Best,
Lawrence
Principal Information Management Officer Durham County Council Room
4/140 County Hall County Durham
DH1 5UF
0191-372-8371
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Baines, Jonathan
Sent: 08 December 2010 10:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Section 47
David
I've got to disagree with a formulation that people who "attend in their
professional capacity ... are therefore not third parties". We do not
shed our privacy (and DPA) rights when we walk through the office door.
I would agree though, of course, that the fact that they are acting in a
professional capacity is a relevant (and most probably a determining)
factor in assessing the extent to which they would have a reasonable
expectation of non-disclosure.
The Information Tribunal, only the other day, upheld an ICO decision
that it was contrary to the DP principles to disclose the names of
police officers who had attended a strategy meeting held prior to a
hunt, because disclosure would be an unnecessary interference with the
officers' article 8 rights.
regards
Jonathan Baines
Legal and Democratic Services
Buckinghamshire County Council
tel: 01296 383681
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Wilson
Sent: Wednesday 08 December 2010 10:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Section 47
Brenda,
The subject access right can not be ignored just because certain
attendees object to the minutes being disclosed, they attend in their
professional capacity and are therefore not third parties. I deal with
such requests on a regular basis and the following is the general
approach we take.
If the parents were present, then there are no grounds for refusing to
disclose the minutes, as they are already aware of what was discussed
and have a right to comment on the accuracy of them.
However, our meetings are structured in such a way as there is a general
meeting, the minutes of which will almost always be disclosed and a
confidential section, where the parents are not present. This is where
things like police intelligence / PNC checks etc are discussed. These
minutes are not routinely discussed but are assessed on a case by case
basis. The result is that they are usually withheld or disclosed after
heavy redaction.
Many Thanks
David Wilson
Data Protection Officer
01305 225175
Brenda Scourfield <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
<[log in to unmask]> 07/12/2010 16:59 Please respond to
Brenda Scourfield <[log in to unmask]>
To
[log in to unmask]
cc
Subject
[data-protection] Section 47
I have had a request from a parent for copies of minutes of two startegy
meetings following a Section 47 Investigation(i.e. Child Protection
Enquiries) The outcome was that there were no concerns re parenting
issues. Is he entitled to these minutes under DP ? Not all members of
the strategy meeting have given consent to disclose - education and the
police. Social Services tell me that their policy is not to disclose if
all do not give consent.
Any advice greatly received as my knowledge of child care law is limited
and I have to rely on what Social Services tell me. Maybe DP overides'
their policy'
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