I agree with Tim (Trent, not turner!). The ICO did not say "there is no
evidence to pursue a claim", they said "no breach of the regs took
place". The breach occurs when the call was made for the purpose of
marketing - as Reg 21 makes clear.
I then also agree with Tim (Turner, not Trent), clearly they can't
follow up a complaint without evidence at all, but then two points (1)
they should say that, and they clearly did not.(2) There might not be
any evidence, but we will keep a record, if there are a few of them (and
although not yet any evidence) we can write to the organisation and warn
them off, serve an information notice or whatever.
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] When is a sales cold call not a sales
cold call?[Scanned]
I agree with the ICO. They contact the organisation and tell them that a
complainant thinks they were about to receive a marketing phone call.
How would that stand up at the Tribunal? The Tribunal is not about right
and wrong - it's about evidence.
Any formal action the Commissioner takes could ultimately end up at the
Tribunal - some complaints do not meet the threshold required. A person
who wants to complain with any force needs to provide evidence of the
breach, not evidence that the breach was clearly about to happen.
Regulation 21 might focus on instigation, but the only worthwhile proof
of the nature of the call is to let it play out.
I walk down the street holding a brick. I stop in front of a window,
still holding the brick. Can anyone prove - to a legal standard worth
pursuing - that I was about to chuck it through the window? No. If you
wait, the window gets broken, but at least I can't pretend that I was
taking the brick for a walk.
One can wait for proof and complain about it, or put the phone down as
soon as the unsolicited nature of the call becomes obvious. I don't
really see how you can do both and still give the Commissioner enough to
go on.
Tim Turner
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Ian
Sent: 01 April 2010 11:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] When is a sales cold call not a sales
cold call?[Scanned]
I agree with you entirely Tim, it appears absurd.
I do think they need to be clear on where the extremities of regulation
lie though. There needs to be a line somewhere.
Ian
________________________________
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues on
behalf of Tim Trent
Sent: Thu 01/04/2010 10:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] When is a sales cold call not a sales
cold call?[Scanned]
Now I know it's April the first, but I have just had a reply from the
UKIC:
BEGINS
In response to your question, yes this call would fall outside of the
Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003, because as
explained previously, no actual marketing was transmitted before the
call was terminated.
ENDS
As you may expect, Don Quixote here has pushed back hard on this
response.
On 1 Apr 2010, at 10:00, Tim Trent wrote:
Good grief! I have had a reply from the Information
Commissioner.
It seems that, if you as recipient oft the sales call, hang up
before a magic word has been uttered by the cold caller to demonstrate
that this is a sales call, then it is not a sales call.
Oh lord.
Yes, of course I've blogged about it, and yes I'm sorry for
those who can't see blogs from the office, but you just have to take
this one home!
http://timtrent.blogspot.com/2010/04/information-commissioner-tries-to.h
tml
Oh lord!
On 30 Mar 2010, at 17:13, Tim Trent wrote:
ROFLMAO
As we know, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
applies
Now I have also postulated a scenario at
http://timtrent.blogspot.com/2010/03/extraordinary-response-from-uk.html
Phone rings and is answered.
"Hello Mr Trent, This is Bert Scammer of Scammers
Incorporated. Our specialist team of Scammers are in your area and..."
Phone is hung up because I hate cold calling and I am
TPS registered. I have not said a word.
On 30 Mar 2010, at 17:03, Bradshaw, Phillip wrote:
"Hello Mr Trent. I'm conducting some market
research into whether you are interested in buying a timeshare ... "
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