At this rate social historians will very quickly be out of a job. That's
why I think it matters where and how the information is kept. If it is in
live police records I fully agree that it is excessive. If it's in some
dusty court archive where it may be consulted by someone in a hundred years
time researching the history of shoplifting in a consumer society it's a
different matter - hence the exemptions, with safeguards, in s.33 of the
Act.
Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Plouviez" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: police need not delete conviction data after all
I agree with Tim. Some people have proposed that retention is fine, it
would be use that could be challenged - that is, it's fine to keep the
record as a historical fact, even though it would of course be unfair to
use a conviction for teenage shoplifting to deny a middle-aged man a
job. But if so there is no purpose in keeping, and the 5th principle is
breached. "Just in case some bizarre set of circumstances arise in which
it is relevant to something that this guy committed an offence 30 years
ago" is not, in my understanding, a properly defined purpose under DPA.
Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
Sent: 20 October 2009 08:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] police need not delete conviction data
after all
I think the retention of the data - especially in the cases that are
relevant to this appeal - is excessive and a breach of principle 3. I do
not believe that the theft of a pack of meat should haunt a person for
the rest of their lives. As someone with no criminal record, I'm a bit
wary of wanting to give everyone who has fallen foul of the law the
digital equivalent of a tattoo on their foreheads, no matter what the
circumstances.
The idea that data is retained until a person is 100 years old, no
matter how trivial the incident, does not fit my understanding of how
the Act is supposed to work. Would data about these trivial offences be
any use in a court case or police investigation? If so, how is this the
case? Data should not be retained for the sake of it, as a punishment -
it is retained for a purpose. What is the purpose of keeping decades-old
data about teenage shoplifters or other trivial offences? If historical
facts remain as facts, why should any data ever be expunged? Why should
anyone be allowed to move on from anything - criminal or disciplinary?
Why have a fifth principle at all?
I hope the Commissioner appeals to the Supreme Court - I think the idea
that a trivial mistake can follow a person around for their whole lives
is a breach of the DPA. There should be a clear purpose determined for
each case - the apparent lack of respect of the DP principles in this
case should be a cause for concern. The idea that a person can get to
middle age and still be obliged to account for teenage mistakes is
unjust and - to my understanding - a breach of the Act.
Tim Turner
Wigan Council
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Ticher
Sent: Mon 19 October 2009 16:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] police need not delete conviction data
after all
Hmm. Not quite. I agree that it happened, and is therefore on the
record.
The question is, which record, where?
If we think of paper records, twenty-year-old information does not have
the same prominence as current information. It's likely to be fading
away somewhere in a separate archive; retrieval would be possible, quite
rightly, but not automatic.
One of the original reasons for having a Data Protection Act in the
first place was because computers change the picture. The information
stays crisp and shiny for as long as you hold it. You have to actively
'fade it away'
if it is to work the same way as a paper record. I think it's
legitimate for people to feel uncomfortable if that's not done.
Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antoinette Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: police need not delete conviction data after all
I believe it for the prospective employer to exercise the
decision/discretion about the proportionality to the crime, not the
Police, who should I believe should be simply recording the facts. The
fact is the crime happened; it is a historical fact that should not be
wiped as though it never happened.
Antoinette Carter
Information Policy Adviser, Information Governance Global Information
Systems (GIS)
Tel: (0)20 7389 4016
BCTN: 8 010 4016
Email: [log in to unmask]
________________________________
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bailey, Trish
Sent: 19 October 2009 14:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] police need not delete conviction data
after all
Hmmmm ....... needs to be proportionate to the crime. If the individual
stole a piece of meat for 65p 45 years ago and no further criminal
activity recorded then one would definitely destroy the "conviction
information".
On the other side of the coin, if you have Ian Huntley who had several
"unproved at the time" allegations of indecent behaviour, yes I would
be keeping that data along with the conviction data for ever. Its not
just "applying one rule for all in this category" its about retention
risk management and retention guidelines issued around that risk
assessment.
Lets hope the police modify their procedures to reflect this now they
have won their case. It would certainly go a long way in balancing
information & record management of public information proportionate to
the crime.
Trish Bailey (MSc)
Information Governance
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