Paul,
I'm thinking a lot about this, and I think I may be coming over to your side!!!!
Simon.
Quoting Paul Ticher <[log in to unmask]>:
> Interesting one. I read it as: "If it is in your legitimate interests to do
>
> this, and processing the data in this way is a necessary part of doing it,
> then ... " whereas I think your interpretation is more on the lines of: "If
> there is some necessity for you to do this, and doing it is in your
> legitimate interests, then ..." The reason I think I'm right is that there
> would be no need to provide for 'legitimate interests' if the higher test of
>
> necessity also applied. I'm ready to be corrected on this, of course.
>
> I agree that there is no necessity for using the data in this way, and that
> prior consent would be preferable, but I don't think Condition six is ruled
> out.
>
> Paul Ticher
> 0116 273 8191
> 22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
>
> I hereby require any recipient of this message not to use my personal data
> for direct marketing purposes.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "simon howarth" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: "Paul Ticher" <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Alumni Data
>
>
> >I take your point. But in the cicumstances I am not sure that you can apply
>
> >any of the Schedule 2 conditions except
> > the gaining of consent.
> >
> > You are right that the interest must be legitatimate, but the sixth
> > condition has the key word "necessary" within
> > it. Is it necessary that the information be used for Alumni activities. I
> > would say it's probably less necessary
> > and more a "nice to have".
> >
> > Condition 2 is not relevant as there is no contract implied for this
> > Condition 3 is not relevant
> > Condition 4 is not relevant
> > Condition 5 is not relevant
> > Condition 6 we've covered
> >
> > This leaves condition 1, as they essentially would like to use this
> > information but there is no overriding reason
> > for it to be provided except where there is already an understanding
> > (informed when they joined as student, maybe)
> > and this is not the case in this instance - maybe an opportunity to
> > rectify this for the September/October intakes?
> >
> > Simon Howarth.
> >
> > Quoting Paul Ticher <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >> Why is it not fair to say 'unless you say no, we will do ...' ? Of
> >> course,
> >> you don't comply with the first Schedule 2 Condition, because I agree
> >> that
> >> failure to reply isn't consent, but you may well meet one of the others.
> >> The sixth Condition is the obvious one; it requires the balance of
> >> interests
> >>
> >> to be considered: your interest must be 'legitimate', and there must be
> >> no
> >> 'unwarranted' interference in their rights, freedoms and legitimate
> >> interests' (not an absence of interference).
> >>
> >> To me, the key in this case is not consent but transparency, with an opt
> >> out
> >>
> >> as a safeguard in case there is a serious risk to the Data Subject's
> >> rights,
> >>
> >> freedoms and legitimate interests.
> >>
> >> So I really don't think I disagree with Simon. If you are writing to ask
> >> whether their details can be used, failure to reply means you can't. But
>
> >> if
> >>
> >> you are writing to tell them what you are going to do, and can meet one
> >> of
> >> the other Conditions, failure to reply means you can (even if it's not
> >> the
> >> ideal situation).
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Ticher
> >> 0116 273 8191
> >> 22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
> >>
> >> I hereby require any recipient of this message not to use my personal
> >> data
> >> for direct marketing purposes.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "simon howarth" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: "Paul Ticher" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:23 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Alumni Data
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'm sorry, I don't agree with Paul and have experience with ICO
> >> > involvement of this very thing from a utilities
> >> > contact point of view.
> >> >
> >> > It is not fair to say "Unless you contact us to say no, we'll use your
> >> > information" (or equivalent). Absence of an
> >> > answer is not consent. It is not the same as implied consent via a form
> >> > that someone is filling out where a
> >> > contract may be implied. If the wording is correct on such a document
> >> > then
> >>
> >> > consent can be implied. However, if you
> >> > are contacting someone to ask if their details can be used you CANNOT
> >> > assume that silence is consent, or state that
> >> > this will be the case. The ICO provided this guidance several years ago
>
> >> > to
> >>
> >> > us when I was doing some work for a well
> >> > known elastictrickery firm.
> >> >
> >> > However, maybe foreseeability may be used here? Is it reasonable for a
> >> > student to expect their personal details to
> >> > be used in Alumni activities? I would suggest possibly, and perhaps ask
> >> > the ICO what they think. If they agree,
> >> > then information may be provided (if you wish) without asking, although
> >> > you may decide not to be so draconian.
> >> >
> >> > Simon Howarth.
> >> >
> >> > Quoting Paul Ticher <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> >
> >> >> My view is that it would depend, at least partially, on what you told
> >> >> them
> >> >> when you asked for permission. If you said 'we want to use your data
> >> >> but
> >>
> >> >> we
> >> >>
> >> >> need your consent', then non-response = no consent and you can't use
> >> >> the
> >> >> data. If you said 'we are going to use your data but you can stop us
> >> >> if
> >> >> you
> >> >>
> >> >> choose', then you are OK to use the data of those who didn't reply.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is a very common trap, which loads of organisations fall into.
> >> >> You
> >> >> have basically given people three options ('yes', 'no' and 'no reply')
> >> >> when
> >> >> you meant to give them two (either 'yes' and 'no reply' - which would
> >> >> therefore equal 'no', or 'no' and 'no reply' - which would therefore
> >> >> equal
> >> >> yes).
> >> >>
> >> >> The only time when three choices make sense is when there are
> >> >> genuinely
> >> >> three options - full data on the site ('yes'), no data on the site
> >> >> ('no')
> >> >> and partial data on the site ('no reply') but unless these were
> >> >> spelled
> >> >> out
> >> >> in the letter, I don't think they are now a reasonable course of
> >> >> action.
> >> >>
> >> >> Paul Ticher
> >> >> 0116 273 8191
> >> >> 22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB
> >> >>
> >> >> I hereby require any recipient of this message not to use my personal
> >> >> data
> >> >> for direct marketing purposes.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Sarah Rainford" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:37 PM
> >> >> Subject: Alumni Data
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Colleagues
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would be grateful for some advice on the following:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We have bought into an external Alumni website provision facility
> >> >> > who
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > be acting as a data processor on our behalf. I have been asked to
> >> >> > provide
> >> >> > former student data as part of the setting up process. The last two
> >> >> > years
> >> >> > leavers cohort have been canvassed on exit to determine approval of
> >> >> > personal data being included on the website. A small minority
> >> >> > replied
> >> >> > explicit in their refusal and their data will not be included.
> >> >> > The majority fall into two categories, approx one third who replied
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > permission granted and again I do not have an issue with these.
> >> >> > Approx
> >> >> > two thirds did not reply, but I have been asked to submit their
> >> >> > personal
> >> >> > data for Names and start/end year data to be viewed by other
> >> >> > members.
> >> >> > My
> >> >> > understanding is that it will be a member only sign and former
> >> >> > students
> >> >> > are being contacted prior to launch to invite them to become
> >> >> > members.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have also been asked to provide the last five years leavers data
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > names and start/end data only to be displayed. I think from my
> >> >> > understanding of DPA that displaying even this small amount of
> >> >> > personal
> >> >> > data would be contravening the DPA as it is being used for a
> >> >> > different
> >> >> > purpose than it's original purpose(which was enrolment).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would also be grateful for colleagues comments on the request to
> >> >> > provide
> >> >> > current Personal Tutor names to add to the website for students who
> >> >> > subscribe to build their profiles. These tutors have not provided
> >> >> > permission for their names to be included. Again I am concerned
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > external website providers request with regard to DPA.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I look forward to your thoughts and comments
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sarah Rainford
> >> >> > CIS Manager
> >> >> > Blackpool Sixth Form College
> >> >> > 01253 394911 Ext:232
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
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> >> >> > by MailMarshal
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Simon Howarth
> >> > The Information Edge
> >> > 37 The Grange
> >> > Cottam
> >> > Preston
> >> > PR4 0LR
> >> >
> >> > Office: 0870 991 3696
> >> > Mobile: 07836 365588
> >> >
> >> > Webtech Systems trading as The Information Edge, registered in England
> >> > No.
> >> > 3428632. More information available at www.informationedge.co.uk
> >> >
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Simon Howarth
> > The Information Edge
> > 37 The Grange
> > Cottam
> > Preston
> > PR4 0LR
> >
> > Office: 0870 991 3696
> > Mobile: 07836 365588
> >
> > Webtech Systems trading as The Information Edge, registered in England No.
> > 3428632. More information available at www.informationedge.co.uk
> >
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>
>
--
Simon Howarth
The Information Edge
37 The Grange
Cottam
Preston
PR4 0LR
Office: 0870 991 3696
Mobile: 07836 365588
Webtech Systems trading as The Information Edge, registered in England No.
3428632. More information available at www.informationedge.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
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Go to http://www.pipex.co.uk/business-services
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