Dear Colleagues,
We have several issues going on here:
First: LEAs requests for a record of work are not new, I remember the first request coming through around 3 years ago. Given today's climate of audit and paper trail, this one doesnt seem to be one that we can really argue about, can we?
Second: Whatever the actual length of support made available to a student, based on their individual needs, the context of that support benefit's the student most if the idea is to enable them to become a more independent learner. It is important that we do not infantilise students and assume that all students will need tutorial support throughout their study programme. It is still the case that the students who take up learning support are not in the majority. Most seem to get by without us. Some do take up the support throughout, and with all the range of uptake in between. The student attending tutorials for 3 years is certainly not the rule. Well meaning colleagues sometimes refer to students as if they are incompetent and expected to always be so. I am not sure in whose interests this perspective is being circulated.
Third: The improvement in HEI provision is not going to happen all by itself. It will need some pressure to conjure up the will, as well as the work to provide the mechanisms. Experienced dyslexia support professionals are well placed to make this contributions, rather than remaining outside of it.
Regards,
Penny Georgiou
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. on behalf of Peter Hill
Sent: Mon 14/08/2006 17:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:
Subject: Re: LEA requests for record of work for Dyslexia/SpLD tuition
Hi
Apologies - this is a 'me too' post also.
Well said Bernard.
Regards
Peter Hill
BERNARD DOHERTY wrote:
This is a 'me too' post, but with a subtley different argument. I have always thought it peculiar that the literacy skills of students who have completed at least twelve years of full time education are to be magiacally transformed by ten or so hours of support spread over twelve or so weeks while the students face a previously unknown set of pressures and demands. (Of course, this argument understands that the primary purpose of compulsory education is to impart these skills.) Among other things, the acceptable standard of formal academic writing and its presentation is much higher in tertiary education than in schools. How are students to understand the change and what is required of them unless someone explains in detail in a way that they can understand and put into practice?
I am quite ready to listen to any argument that says it should not be the job of universities to teach and prepare for this kind of activity. However, until I see that the problems such students face are routinely properly addressed elsewhere earlier in their education, I shall continue to recommend that they have as much support as they need. Students are admitted on the basis of their academic achievements; where that standard was achieved with support, a university cannot do less than see that at least as much support continues to be available. I sincerely doubt that much of heat generated in this argument comes from a dispute about pedagogic principle (pace Pat): if dyslexia support was £15 an hour, we wouldn't be hearing about it.
Regards, Bernard
Bernard Doherty
Assessor
Camrbidge Access Centre
"Wakeham, Mark" <[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I agree with Ginny completely.
There is a reason why we don't just have a set list of equipment and non-med support for each disability category and that is because every disabled person will be working at a different level, through the severity of their disability and their level of coping strategies already in place.
I have worked with all kinds of dyslexic students over the last six years and I can honestly say that every one of them has learnt in a different way and has therefore required a different level of support.
As an example, one student I worked with had only learnt to write two years previous to seeing me and the only strategies in place for them were avoidance. This meant that the level of support for this student was intense.
At the other end of the scale, I worked with a student who had been receiving support throughout their education and was now studying on a PhD. There was very little left to add to their support other than fine-tuning the coping strategies that they had built up.
If we are here to help develop true autonomy for the disabled learner then we really do need the flexibility that has been previously allowed through the DSA, so by restricting the number of hours tuition allowed and to limit the areas of support that we offer will only be to the detriment of disabled students.
Like Ginny my role is to create an independent learner, but some students need the length of their full-time course to fully absorb, what is after all, an alien environment to them and if it takes that long to give them the independence then so be it!
Mark Wakeham
Dyslexia Tutor
UWIC
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:DIS-FORUM@JISCMAIL..AC.UK] On Behalf Of Ginny Stacey
Sent: 14 August 2006 13:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LEA requests for record of work for Dyslexia/SpLD tuition
Dear Pat,
We don't yet live or teach in Utopia.
Just as dyslexic students don't acquire language in the same way that
non-dyslexic ones do, they don't acquire study skills in the same way.
In my experience, there is a wide range of need for study skills: from
none, to 1 term's worth, to 1 year, to for the whole course. I think
assessors should be able to give guidance as to which level might be
appropriate, but not a set-in-stone amount.
As an assessor, I used to err on the side of caution: Even for those
seemingly needing none, I used include 4 hours of emergency support.
You can't predict all the problems a disabled student may encounter in a
needs assessment; it can take far too long to negotiate extra support
when a crisis arises therefore it is much better to trust the disability
officers and give some leeway that they can use. Times of regular extra
need are the beginning of the second year or during a dissertation, etc;
ie times when a new level of skills is needed for the course. When
recommending less than the whole course, I'd suggest a review to see
whether the support was still needed.
As a support tutor, my aim is get the students independent, i.e to limit
the time they come. However, it can be counter productive to remove
support too early, as the damage done through compounding earlier
failure makes getting the new skills going again more difficult.
It would of course be much better if the full range of teaching practice
were in place right from the beginning, though secondary school and into
FE and HE, but this isn't Utopia and it ain't there yet.
I'll be interested to hear others' view points
Ginny Stacey
University of Oxford
Pat Mulcahy wrote:
> Dear John,
>
> I appreciate your concerns for your student.
>
> Does the assessor concerned feel that there could ever be a teaching
> and learning environment so inaccessible that a student
> with Dyslexia has to spend approx £5400 of their DSA to learn?
>
> The DSA is for 'additional cost' only. There are no study skills
> strategies that work for dyslexic students only. They work for all of
> us. Why are these not becoming part of our teaching and
> learning strategies for all students in accordance with the DED?
>
>
>
>
>
> */John Conway /* wrote:
>
> Well I've just had one from the Disabled Student Allowance pilot in
> Darlington authorising the only first 10 sessions despite the needs
> assessor recommending one per week for three years and requiring
> re-assessment after the tenth before paying for any more
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ginny Stacey
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 3:35 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: LEA requests for record of work for Dyslexia/SpLD tuition
>
> We use a feedback form each term, but only for university purposes.
>
> To write something for LEAs strikes me as a waste of time. Just a
> list
> of study skills dealt with in a session wouldn't convey what's
> done, and
>
> fuller reports for each session and each student wouldn't be read.
>
> WRT another email: hasn't the 10 or 23 hours got laid to rest? I've
> certainly seen emails to that effect.
>
> Ginny
>
> Dr Ginny Stacey
> Senior Dyslexia Study Tutor and Researcher
> Tel: (01865 2)72495
>
> University Laboratory of Physiology
> Parks Road
> Oxford OX1 3PT
>
>
> James Dibley wrote:
>
> >I have taken a look at the LEA / LA guidelines
> >
> >http://www.dfes.gov.uk/studentsupport/administrators/doc/DSA%20guidance
> .
> >doc
> >
> >The only bit that could be interpreted as justification for
> requesting
> >additional evidence of support session that I could find was in
> >paragraph 145 (page 35) where is states (on the topic of 'appropriate
> >support')"..LAs should satisfy itself that the cost is reasonable and
> >appropriate."
> >
> >Poor grammar notwithstanding, that was the only bit I could find. I
> >think, as ever, it comes down to each LEA interpreting things in its
> own
> >way.
> >
> >We use timesheets as evidence when invoicing LEA's. We are
> planning to
> >also request tutors complete a slightly more detailed document from
> >September. Something that gives an outline of what has been
> covered in
> >each session and what is planned for the next. Although that is
> >something driven by us internally and not as a result of LEA
> requests.
> >
> >James.
> >
> >
> >James Dibley BSc (Hons) MA
> >Support Work Officer
> >Student Services.
> >University of Wales, Newport
> >Tel: 01633 432681
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
> >[mailtto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julia Tait
> >Sent: 08 August 2006 16:36
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: LEA requests for record of work for Dyslexia/SpLD tuition
> >
> >When submitting invoices to some LEAs we have recently received
> requests
> >for a record of work in addition to the timesheets we normally send.
> >
> >Can anyone tell us whether this is now standard practice? Is
> there any
> >documentation from the DfES stating that this is now required?
> >
> >We are wondering what has prompted this request. Although we
> >recognise that keeping records of work is good practice and encourage
> >tutors to do so, we were not aware that they are mandatory or
> that they
> >have to be submitted with invoices.
> >
> >I'd be grateful if anyone could shed any light.
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >
> >Julia Tait
> >Adviser for Students with Dyslexia
> >& Other Specific Learning Difficulties
> >Student Services,
> >Oxford Brookes University
> >Helena Kennedy Student Centre,
> >Headington Hill Campus
> >Oxford OX3 0BP
> >
> >01865 484659
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> *Mr Patrick Mulcahy*
> Assessor
> CCPD, NLRAC, ETAT
>
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