The best article I have seen recently (at all?) was an extract from a
lecture by Henry Porter in a 4 page spread in the Independent, now
unavailable from them without paying £1. It is on other sites if you
google it "Henry porter we're all suspects now". But the language is a bit
strong (not in the article) so I'm not giving a link...
Porter makes the point that when the iron curtain existed we valued our
freedoms. Now in its absence we are losing sight of those freedoms
supposedly in the name of security. They are being undermined very
discretely in lots of small ways (some are listed).
In answer to the "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear"
argument he says there is something to fear. Someone else's liberty is our
liberty; when it is removed from them it is removed from us, even if we
cannot conceive of a circumstance when we might need it, which I feel ties
in with Tim's point as to who knows what will happen in the future.
In words attributed to Ben Franklin "Those who would give up essential
liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither freedom or
safety".
I have the extract text. If anyone wants me to send it let me know off
list.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Nick Landau
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 5:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Telegraph article
I note that there was a discussion on the very same topic ie "Has the
'Surveillance' Society Gone Too Far" on the Telegraph website 3 weeks ago.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=BLOGDETAIL&grid=P30&blog=you
rview&xml=/news/2006/11/02/ublview02.xml
Nick Landau
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Trent
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Telegraph article
I think we ended up here "Because people could do it" and probably because
prior UKIC incumbents let it slip by unnoticed.
A new item recently said "of course we will all have our journeys tracked"
as though it was both desirable and a fait accompli. But I don't want
people to know when I have stormed out of the house and gone for a
drive......
My son does not want anyone to know he has 63 different girlfriends, one for
each day of the month )Ok, he works a strange month)
etc etc
Do we have any outcome yet regarding the case that has gone to Europe about
the man who refused to say who was driving his car when a roadside camera
caught him?
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Serewicz
Sent: 23 November 2006 13:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Telegraph article
The absolutely fundamentally puzzling point for me in this issue is the
following. Crime rates have not decreased, conviction rates have not
increased, and fewer people feel reassured. From a DP or rather a RIPA
perspective, is the surveillance proportionate to the end?
I am aware there are instances where CCTV and other monitoring has achieved
great results, such as rapid responses to emergency situations, and
resolution of serious cases. However, I wonder what the difference we would
have in this society if we organized our arrangements different.
Hypothetically speaking, we have 100 cameras and 20 police officers. What
would be the difference in terms of social order and crime reduction if we
had 20 cameras and 100 officers? Surveillance by officers walking the beat
is quite different in degree, kind, and proportionality, than electronic
surveillance through CCTV and T-Waves. I fear that our reliance on
technology, especially surveillance technology, creates a fundamental
problem within our social relations.
Cordially,
Lawrence
Lawrence W. Serewicz
Scrutiny Manager
Management Support Unit
Wear Valley District Council
01388-761-985
Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
<[log in to unmask]>
23/11/2006 13:14 Please respond to
Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>
[log in to unmask]
cc
SubjectRe: [data-protection] Telegraph article
I suppose people will say "Those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear",
but, as a footnote to this says elsewhere on the web;
"But what if an innocent action today becomes a crime in the future, and
what if there is suddenly a less than benign government?"
I'm not sure I am at all happy, the more so since I tend to believe that
many of the alleged security issues which we face may me carefully invented
in order to get us to allow ourselves to be monitored. Of course that will
take us way off topic.
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hitches, John F
Sent: 23 November 2006 12:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [data-protection] Telegraph article
Interesting article for dp people in today's Daily Telegraph "Yes, they are
watching you" and can be found on
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml;jsessionid=13YNVBFYINW01QFIQMFCFF
OAVCBQYIV0?xml=/arts/2006/11/23/ftsurv23.xml
John Hitches
General Administrative Manager
Kingston University
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