Not sure quite where to put this but I remember being told a long time
ago never to put anything in an e-mail I wouldn't write on the back of a
postcard. It's not a rule as far as I know.
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Charles
Christacopoulos
Sent: 26 October 2006 03:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [data-protection] Top or bottom posting was Re: Email
quarantine systems
Hi,
Nick Landau wrote:
> I am interested as to where there is any such rule.
Why do you need a rule? See the example of this message and I will
explain. Oh, and those who have not seen my previous message will not
have a clue what this is about.
>
> In the newsgroups I subscribe to I do bottom-post. I might add that
> these are read in Outlook Express where the thread is preserved and
> therefore to "snip" is the order of the day - without losing the sense
> of what is being said.
Newsgroups as in Usenet, right? Why are newsgroups any different to the
messages here? There are multiple users posting on the same topic which
depending on your mailer can be shown as threaded or not threaded (i.e
how the messages in your mailbox are sorted).
Messages are posted to a mailing/discussion list and they do go in a
user's mailbox. There is no point in leaving tons of footers inserted
automagically by the list server software or content which is no longer
relevant because the discussion (thread) had moved on to something
completely different (as I am doing on purpose with this message).
>
> In a list there is no such preservation of the order of what has been
> said within each topic - and therefore to snip what has already been
The preservation is mailer dependent and how the mailer can sort (or not
sort) your mailbox. Thunderbird can sort the messages on the quarantine
topic as threaded messages (I choose not to see them that way but it is
a matter of ticking an option). Thunderbird is FREE! Go on get a copy
... http://www.mozilla.com/
> said would, I think, be seen to be bad manners - after all, generally
> snipping is done to make one's own point rather than to answer the
> points made by the previous person (in a newsgroup, I am talking
> about)
Snipping takes place as a discussion progresses or if it is a long
message and the poster can only respond to a small part of it. Example,
original poster asks for help and 20 different things ... I can only
answer one point ... depending on the number of previous replies I may
quote a small(er) part of the message to which I am responding. It is
not because I want to make MY POINT :-) but because I cannot contribute
to the other points. Wrong end of stick me things.
By not top-posting, I am answering the points made by the previous
poster as I tend to credit the other person as an intelligent being.
And by intelligent I mean a detailed discussion can take place as
opposed to my opinion is this and don't care what anyone else thinks
(i.e. top posting in my naive view).
>
> According to Wikipedia on Top-posting (if I might be allowed)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting
Yes it says so.
>
> "When a message is replied to in e-mail, Internet forums, and Usenet
> the original can often be included, or "quoted", in a variety of
> different ways.
> The main options are "top-posting" - replying above the original
> message; "bottom-posting" - replying below; or "interleaved posting".
> While each online community differs on which styles are appropriate or
> acceptable, within any community the use of the "wrong" method risks
> being seen as a major breach of netiquette, and likely to provoke
> vehement response from community regulars."
>
> I joined this community - and as is recommended I observed I imagine
> what was the prevailing mode in this list. And I presumably noticed
> that it was top-posting.
It is isn't it :-) Don't worry I don't pick on you or anyone in
particular. No sh*t, I picked on Tim :-D I have given up trying to
change the world, I do my own think as all those around me are mad ;-)
>
> Indeed I have looked back through a thread and this seems to be the
> majority approach - with some clear dissensions from that.
>
> But I would have thought that if it was a true academic community
> people would be allowed to do their own thing!
It is a question of age and exposure I guess. As you said. If you go
to newsgroups you bottom post. It is exactly the same here or with
anyone you are having a detailed discussion where discussing and
agreeing individual points is important.
The similarity between usenet and any discussion list is that multiple
messages will be posted on a topic (thread). Depending on my interest
or available time I might click on just a few messages of all the
messages received on the topic. A quick glance down the message gives
me an idea of what is going on. Then I have the choice to click on more
or move on the next topic (or message in my inbox).
The reason usenet is maintaining its standard is because it is old and
used by old fogies like me who were told not to top post. They are
prepared to pick an argument and /eject/ people who are top posting.
Here it is a professional group so picking arguments on top posting is
not on :-D Not my list anyway so it is the last thing I would care
about arguing. The next time I post, I will completely bottom post for
the heck of it :-)
Now see ... how much stuff was below the message you posted. Some of it
relevant to the above discussion and not showing, and the rest noise
which is filling up 400-500 mail boxes (until deleted).
Cheers
Charles
PS. Why am I up this time of the morning?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Christacopoulos"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Email quarantine systems
>
>
>> Tim Trent wrote:
>>> No. I have not consented by sending the email, not in the least
>>> degree. I send the email to a person in an organisation. There are
>>> no rules stated before the processing by the system happens.
>>> Technically there can be no notices unless the system rejects each
>>> and every "first inbound email" and states that any email is subject
>>> to this type of system
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> For your points to be taken seriously you should stop top-posting
>> (the same applies to others). Surely - Shirley even if you like
>> airplane (the film that is) - your comment is not more important than
>> the one you responded to, however much you may think so.
>>
>> If you can rant so can I. Free country 'n all that.
>>
>> My most significant contribution to your issue is ...
>>
>> Geez. The end is near.
>> Aye ...
>>
>> :-)
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> --
>> Charles Christacopoulos, Management Information Officer, Strategic
>> Information Management, Tower Building, University of Dundee, Dundee,
>> DD1 4HN, Scotland, United Kingdom.
>> Tel: 44(0)1382-344891. Fax: 44(0)1382-348845.
>> http://www.somis.dundee.ac.uk/ :: egothor http://www.egothor.org/
>>
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>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
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--
Charles Christacopoulos, Management Information Officer, Strategic
Information Management, Tower Building, University of Dundee, Dundee,
DD1 4HN, Scotland, United Kingdom.
Tel: 44(0)1382-344891. Fax: 44(0)1382-348845.
http://www.somis.dundee.ac.uk/ :: egothor http://www.egothor.org/
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