I understand your desire to be helpful. It is a natural desire.
The problem you face is that you have received this data unlawfully (it was
transferred to you without consent) and thus it is unlawful for you to
process it.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the imbecile who presumably forged
it, your organisation is technically at risk by replying and indeed by doing
anything other than destroying the letter and making a professionally 100%
non committal reply.
Telling them about the consultant's clinic timetable, unless that is public
domain information, is also releasing personal data. Remember the USA and
the murderous anti-abortion lobby? "Yes Mr Smith conducts terminations and
is here every Thursday" Demise of Mr Smith.
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Hughes
Sent: 10 June 2005 13:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [data-protection] FW: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
Just to clarify the situation further, the employer has in fact sent me a
copy of the appointment letter (I'm not going into the rights or wrongs of
his doing this) - I have received it and am responding to his written
request for clarification as to whether or not the appointment took place. I
have no consent from the patient and do not want to disclose any of their
personal data. However I want to be helpful, mainly because the letter is
quite clearly a fake (no letterhead, hospital address is wrong, plus a
number of other incorrect details).
Instead perhaps I should reply by simply stating that the consultant in
question does not hold clinics on Fridays ..... another error!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Hawley, Graeme [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 10 June 2005 13:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
I can put in a request about absolutely anything at all, even the colour of
your underpants. The point is whether the authority holds the information
and then whether it should be disclosed or withheld. But once a request is
received by an authority, it must be dealt with by that authority and not be
batted back to the applicant with the recommendation that they ask someone
else. So in this case, if the employer asks the health board for
information about the attendance or lack of attendance by an employee at an
appointment, the response from the health board cannot be "we think you
should be discussing this with your truant, not us". However, what the
health board could do, in Scotland anyway, is resort to section 18 of FOISA
which states that:
(1) Where, if information existed and was held by a Scottish public
authority, the authority could give a refusal notice under section 16(1) on
the basis that the information was exempt information by virtue of any of
sections 28 to 35, 39(1) or 41 but the authority considers that to reveal
whether the information exists or is so held would be contrary to the public
interest, it may (whether or not the information does exist and is held by
it) give the applicant a refusal notice by virtue of this section.
Freedom of information is fun!!
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tim Trent
Sent: 10 June 2005 12:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
Wait! Do you mean YOU can put in an FOI request and see MY hospital
appointment records?
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hawley, Graeme
Sent: 10 June 2005 12:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
I like Margarita and Jethro's responses, and agree that this would be far
more ideal. However, if a request for information is made to a public
authority, then the FOIA / FOI(S)A requires them to provide a response
relating to the information that they hold about that particular issue, and
does not permit the authority to tell the applicant to go ask elsewhere
instead (even though I do think that that would be a better course of
action).
Graeme Hawley
National Library of Scotland
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jethro R Binks
Sent: 10 June 2005 12:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Tim Trent wrote:
> And that gives us the problem. Each argument holds water. And since
> each argument holds water there are grounds for a dispute. If the
> dispute is settled in favour of the employee it is likely to be a
> disclosure that has caused damage or distress.
>
> I am considering it to be very specific personal data. It gives
> details to the employer that the employee was allegedly not at an
> appointment with that place in that date. By giving them this data
> about their employee, despite the valid point that it is an "absence
> of data", they now have additional data about that employee.
It seems to me the solution is rather simpler (or perhaps it's me who is
simple :).
Why is the employer going behind their employees back on the matter?
Surely they should be discussing this with their employee, and asking them
to furnish proof if they suspect misbehaviour (while being cogniscent of
their employee's right to privacy)? Such proof might take the form of a
letter from the health authority that the employee himself asks to be
written on his behalf - suitably anonymised from features that may identify
a particular department or service attended (so not from the GUM clinic
specifically, for example). The letter can be checked by employee and
handed to his employer; the employer can then contact the health authority
to check the validity of the letter if necessary.
This is perhaps a means of implementing your suggestion:
> The best answer is surely "We require proof that you have the right to
> any information at all about this person and that they permit you to
> have that information before we will give you any information at all.
> You may not interpret this answer as giving you any information of any
> description about that person"
Jethro.
> We are not interest here in any alleged deception by the employee. We
> should only be interested in protecting their rights. Even murderers
> have rights.
>
> _____
>
> From: Lewis, Chris G. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 10 June 2005 12:18
> To: Tim Trent; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: RE: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
>
>
> I disagree. I think were one to say, as suggested "no-one of that name
> had an appointment", you are not disclosing anything about any
> individual in isolation - "no-one called John Smith was here". I can't
> see that a John Smith could complain that that was an unauthorised
> disclsoure of their personal data. Firstly, I don't think it's
> personal data, and secondly, it would equally be known to a member of
> the public who sat in reception all day as it was to the hospital.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues on
> behalf of Tim Trent
> Sent: Fri 10/06/2005 12:14
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
>
>
>
> I would suggest that disclosing where "someone was not" is a
> disclosure of
> personal data, and in this case to a third party without authorisation.
>
> What if this person were attending the GUM clinic for an HIV test and
> has absolutely NO desire for his employer (or alleged employer) to know?
>
> They have now also passed data to you, an unauthorised third party, of
their
>
> suspicions of their employee.
>
> My advice?
>
> Avoid. Do not answer without permission form the data subject.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Hughes
> Sent: 10 June 2005 12:09
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [data-protection] Disclosure or not?
>
> A question for you:
>
> I have been contacted by a company asking whether or not one of their
> employees had an appointment with us one recent Friday afternoon. They
> suspect that they have been handed a faked appointment letter by the
> employee as proof.
>
> If I replied by simply stating "no one of that name had an appointment
here
> on that date", would I be on safe ground? My rationale is that I am
> disclosing nothing as nothing actually took place.
>
> John Hughes
> DPO
> Mayday Healthcare NHS Trust
>
>
>
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Jethro R Binks
Computing Officer, IT Services
University Of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK
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