JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for DATA-PROTECTION Archives


DATA-PROTECTION Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Archives


data-protection@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION  2004

DATA-PROTECTION 2004

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Compulsory ID cards

From:

ianwelton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

ianwelton <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:14:18 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

> The people whose views count here are "middle-class Americans".

I suppose no other views should be taken into account then.

> Not once have I heard 
> anyone say they want America to be "free", let alone 
> "anarchic" (in the sense of being deregulated). Of course, 
> they *think* America *is* free, and to some extent that's 
> true. The *country* [as personified by the President] is free 
> to do whatever it wants, but the *inhabitants* are certainly 
> not as free as they think they are.

Not having lived in the USA in that respect I can only believe what is
stated from experience, my own limited experience and what appears in the
media or is otherwise published.  Although I would observe, freedom is
something said to be eroded by sheer neglect as much as anything else.  

Much material does point to a perspective of minority groups in the USA not
having as much freedom as others unless money can act as a counterbalance.
Examples of that approach are a predisposition for contract law e.g. Where
significant penalty clauses in trans-border data flow contracts could assure
some compliance with differing cultural norms.   But such mechanisms will
only be effective within a commercial sector where stable national laws
serving to reduce manipulation do not act counter productively upon them.

> Well, notwithstanding that, the 
> State of California has now put the names of all the people 
> it did marry up for sale to marketers, on the basis that it's 
> already public information (and no opt-out like the UK's 
> electoral register, I bet!)

Which indicates a great degree of freedom on behalf of the data controller
and very little respect for the individuals involved.  

> Which all that 
> matters to the people concerned. Indeed, everyone is being 
> severely criticised at the moment for not introducing more 
> controls sooner - despite all the officials saying such 
> controls would not have stopped 9-11 !!!!

So patriotism is being used to erode the protections afforded to
individuals, what is new in that.  A well documented old and historical
mechanism used to group, strengthen and justify more or less any type of
action by manipulating majority group(s) and eroding respect for minority
groups.  The privacy principles of all the international instruments, along
with democratic accountability seem to be intended to assist in constraining
that sort of dysfunction are they not?  Perhaps the word 'respect' is the
fatal flaw.  Respect for privacy appears to be only required where an
intrusion is intended or unavoidable, so if nations were serious about
privacy protection that word would only appear within the exceptions, where
it was truly relevant.  The UN Declaration privacy statement is not worded
in that manner, respect only creeps in at the nation states level where such
manipulations could be seen as advantageous.  (refer back to the Californian
gay marriage issues and the paradoxical setting of much regulatory
provision).

> In terms of Government information-gathering, it's still 
> pretty much on the ball. The recent Total Information 
> Awareness project was scrapped as a result.

The regulatory process sequence allows a very great scope for action without
democratic accountability in the US then.  Perhaps the next information
collection/use tactic will be more financially orientated and therefore more
in line with many of the cultural drives.  Sadly privacy will probably
suffer once more.

> However, having to show your driving licence to buy beer is 
> not regarded by the American people as "information 
> gathering". It's a necessary and laudable precaution to stop 
> teenagers drink-driving.

That argument is sterile red tape if other forms of ID are available.  The
only thing a standard ID does is relax the retailer, providing a defence if
they get it wrong and necessitating greater and more accurate forms of ID
which the young have more difficulty in bypassing as they become familiar.
The need for any sort of personal judgement by the seller can also be
totally removed.

> Indeed, as we must be vigilant. The first generation chips 
> are unlikely to have the storage capacity to keep anything 
> like a useful medical record, though. In any event, there 
> needs to be a central copy of the record in case the card is 
> lost, so why not have *just* the central record (which is 
> exactly what the NHS seems to be doing).

Where does the greater need for a central medical record reside?  With the
medical practitioners for treatment or with others who would use the data
for wider  purposes?  Principle one issues are very simple to address,
sometimes difficult to adequately justify, and certainly hard to maintain
respect for.

Ian W

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager