Implicit in your response seems to be the idea that people who make
complaints about issues like this do it for altruistic reasons on behalf of
the silent majority. I think they do it for personal reasons. However,
that's an aside. I haven't said that you have no right to have your rights
upheld, I merely suggested that there are more important things for civil
servants to be doing, in my opinion. We agree that the Commissioner does not
do a good job of enforcement. My solution is just different - I would give
him and his staff the room to look at what I think are the big issues.
> ----------
> From: Tim Trent[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: Tim Trent
> Sent: 06 July 2004 09:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
>
> Time will tell whether he decides that the complaint was serious.
> Nonetheless he has a statutory duty to investigate as far as he finds
> wise.
>
> It is not unlawful to put nauseating pictures of pizza through your
> letterbox. Even if it were, the delivery brat is the data processor here
> (or would be were personal data to be involved), and the pizza house the
> data controller. So chasing the delivery brat would be a great way to get
> prosecuted yourself for chasing brats. But chasing the pizza house would
> make us all grateful to you.
>
> Why do you argue that I have no right to have my rights upheld just
> because
> that creates work for someone?
>
> If the law is unenforceable then it should be repealed. If it remains on
> the statute books it should be enforced. Work or lack thereof for public
> servants is not the issue here. Lawful use of data is.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 8:51 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
>
> By that line of thinking, has he decided that your complaint wasn't
> serious?
>
>
> It is the individual's job to have perspective. An unwanted email is - to
> my
> view - not serious, no matter how many people receive it. I get between
> five
> and ten fliers through my door every week, delivered from local fast food
> outlets. I find them irritating because they are a waste of paper and the
> day-glo photographs of pineapple pizza are nauseating. However, I'm not
> going to chase down the street after the lad who delivers them, because
> even
> if I scare the hell out of him, it'll be another lad who delivers the next
> batch. Far easier to throw the fliers away.
>
> The IC's job is to regulate - I did notice that. But he should first be
> regulating the important aspects of Data Protection - for example, the way
> in which the police store intelligence, the use of data to calculate
> credit
> scores, the issue of how we manage the transition from Education and
> Social
> Services to whatever the Children's Bill envisages - which compete for the
> same resources. If I get bothered by spam email that originates in the UK
> or
> Europe, telling a company that I have complained or will complain to the
> IC
> and the ASA has exactly the same effect as actually doing that, without
> wasting the time of public servants who, in my opinion, have more
> important
> things to do.
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Tim Trent[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Reply To: Tim Trent
> > Sent: 06 July 2004 08:31
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
> >
> > An interesting viewpoint. I don't agree with you over it.
> >
> > You see the Information Commissioner was created to regulate. So
> > regulate he must. Being very sweet to him and lightening his workload
> > is both generous and apparently practical. And yet it falls short of
> > encouraging him to regulate. We either have laws and enforce them
> > well or should repeal the laws.
> >
> > My "single" item along with your "single item" form the same source
> > and other people's "single items" show the scope of problems that
> > *are* the serious problems. It is not the individual's role to judge
> > seriousness but the regulator's.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 8:24 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
> >
> > Isn't it likely that if people complain about every single email to
> > the regulatory Holy Trinity, this will simply increase their backlogs?
> > This, in turn, will lessen the likelihood that any of these
> > organisations will be able to respond effectively to any complaints?
> > This situation involves one email. And yet now, we have three separate
> > organisations potentially creating a case, writing responses, taking
> > time. My response in a similar situation (not that it happens very
> > often) is
> >
> > 1. SPAM UCE arrives.
> > 2. Hit delete key.
> > 3. Make cup of tea.
> >
> > I know I'm being dismissive, but I don't think we should be paying
> > organisations like the ASA and IC to deal with single email complaints.
> > They'll never deal with the big issues if they get distracted by the
> > small ones. Moreover, they could even use their huge complaints
> > backlog as an excuse not to do anything, on the basis that they
> > wouldn't know where to start. Admittedly, I've never heard anyone try
> > this, but give them time, and sufficient complaints mountain, and it
> > might happen.
> >
> > Tim Turner
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Tim Trent[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Reply To: Tim Trent
> > > Sent: 05 July 2004 16:17
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
> > >
> > > I am not going to name the company. After all the Chief Privacy
> > > Officer is on this list. But look at the following scenario:
> > >
> > > 1. SPAM UCE arrives. Trust me, this is to an individual
> > subscriber.
> > > 2. I go to the corporate website and use the contact form to
> lodge
> > a
> > > complaint, quoting DPA 1998 and 2002/58/EC
> > > 3. Several days later I get an email acknowledgement which is not
> > > wholly satisfactory, telling me to ask the Telephone Preference
> > > Authority
> > > (sic) for advice
> > > 4. I respond suggesting a more in depth response would be
> desirable
> > > 5. I decide they are asleep and lodge a complaint with the ASA,
> the
> > > TPS
> > > and the Sleeping Giant (oops I meant "TICO"!)
> > > 6. Several days pass and I get an email acknowledgement which is
> > very
> > > junior and does not meet my needs, nor those of the DPA nor 2002/58/EC
> > > 7. I respond and mention that I have now complained to the ASA,
> TPS
> > > and
> > > TICO
> > > 8. Several days elapse. I get an email telling me I must "Write
> on
> > > paper to the following address". Apparently I must follow their
> > > procedures if I am to complain to them.
> > > 9. I choose not to be fobbed off and explain my formal procedure
> > for
> > > complaining and tell them that they must follow *my* procedure for
> > > complaints and suggest they take it seriously
> > > 10. I get an email response (eventually) reiterating the demand to
> > > send
> > > a written complaint
> > > 11. I resist the overwhelming urge to allow my toys to leave my
> > pram,
> > > am
> > > exceedingly patient in my explanation again of my complaints
> > > procedure. I do make a helpful suggestion. (Watch it! I know you
> > > lot!!) I suggest to them that they really ought to take this
> > > seriously and escalate it to someone who understands that there is
> > > an
> > issue
> > > 12. A very nice lady calls me today to introduce herself and tell
> me
> > > that she is taking this seriously and that there is a major customer
> > > service education issue here which she will handle, plus getting to
> > > the bottom of the problem. She handles me well, gives me a
> > > realistic expectation of a response (even if it is a call to say "no
> > > progress so
> > > far") and leaves me in a pleasant mood. I ask her if "Fred Smith"
> > > is their Chief Privacy Officer.
> > > She confirms that Fred is indeed the CPO.
> > > 13. I wonder to myself if Fred is about to receive a call from
> her.
> > > Fred? I'm sorry. I just happen to take this very seriosuly and
> > > perosnally.
> > > I know you do too, but it seems that your message hasn't got to the
> > > front line troops regularly and properly. "Fred" of course may be
> > > "Freda". I really don't want to identify the corporation that way.
> > >
> > > The lesson here is simple.
> > >
> > > As CPO, "How do I get my message to the customer facing parts of my
> > > organisation in such a way that they will take it seriously?"
> > >
> > > I may well feature this entire saga, anonymised unless the ASA etc
> > > find against the corporation when it will be mega public domain
> > > stuff anyway [Hmm, memo to CPOs "Want to stay off Google for the
> > > RIGHT reasons?"] in one of our newsletters. I don't copy this list
> > > on those. I find that overly commerically intrusive, but I have put
> > > an RSS newsfeed on our website so people may see new stuff with ease!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tim Trent - Consultant
> > > Direct: +44(0)1344 392644 Mobile:+44(0)7710 126618
> > > email: [log in to unmask]
> > > <blocked::mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > > Marketing Improvement Limited, Abbey House, Grenville Place,
> > > Bracknell, United Kingdom, RG12 1BP
> > > <blocked::http://www.marketingimprovement.com/>
> > > http://www.marketingimprovement.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
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