I think that access to structured and unstructured data do not have to be
the same. FOI widens access to unstructured data. However, it does not
bundle unstructured data seamlessly into subject access. There are two
crucial differences: firstly, structured data is available for £10, while
unstructured is available under the FOI charging regime. Secondly, data
controllers are entitled under section 7 to be given information they might
reasonably need to find personal data, which makes me think that we have to
ask for the extra info, we can't just expect to be given it. On the other
hand, unstructured data is available subject to the public authority
receiving "a description" of the requested data. To me, that isn't the same
thing. That sounds like the punter needing to say what they want. .
With any request for data, I don't think we can or should accept "everything
you've got". This is why I like the Durant judgement - it makes structured
and accessible data available for a £10 search. Meanwhile, if the applicant
wants every last post-it and doodled beer mat, they have to put such a
request into words for an unstructured search, and be prepared for
potentially higher costs.
I'm not saying I can turn this idea into a coherent subject access
procedure, and if I can't, there'll be some sort of compromise. However, I
am going to try, and while I wouldn't create a policy entirely dependent on
Durant, given the length of time these things take, I wouldn't pretend
Durant hasn't happened just because Mr D. and Masons are rolling their
sleeves up for the next round.
Tim Turner
Data Protection Officer
Wigan Council
> ----------
> From: Rob Dawson[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 20 May 2004 12:59
> To: Turner, Tim
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] UK's Data Protection Act Might Not
> Meet Eur opean Union Standa rds
>
> I thought that one of the reasons why Durant failed was the way that the
> court of appeal understood the definition of data. However, under S68 of
> FOIA the definition of data for public authorities is broadened and is
> defined as "recorded information held by a public authority and does not
> fall within any of the paragraphs (a) to (d)". This must then include all
>
> data about an individual whether it be biographical or not.
>
> So if a request for data is submitted under FOIA, the personal data
> exemption applies and the request must be dealt with under DPA yet the
> extension to the definition still applies.
>
> I think!
> --
> Thank you and kind regards
>
> Opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer
>
> Rob Dawson
> Institutional Compliance Officer
> University College Chester
> Parkgate Road
> Chester
> CH1 4BJ
>
> [log in to unmask]
> Tel: 01244 392892
> Fax: 01244 392821
> http://www.chester.ac.uk/
>
>
>
> Quoting Tim Turner <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > I think "obstructive" is a subjective word. I'd substitute another,
> equally
> > subjective one: "practical". If we search in properly structured files
> for
> > information which really concerns a person, and not for every passing
> > reference to them, we can do an efficient trawl and deliver the results
> > well
> > within the 40 day deadline. Managing the expectations of a requester
> isn't
> > necessarily "obstructive", any more than giving in to unreasonable
> requests
> > is "open and responsive". Admittedly, FOI opens up more data to the
> > applicant. However, unstructured data is available under FOI's charging
> > arrangements and is subject to a description of the data being
> provided, so
> > I see that as a separate search, rather than a component of subject
> access.
> >
> > The applicant who arrives with no more than £10 and a demand for
> > "everything" shouldn't automatically be given "everything". To be
> reluctant
> > to go along with that isn't being obstructive, it's being practical.
> >
> > Tim Turner
> > Data Protection Officer
> > Wigan Council
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Edwina Withe[SMTP:edwina.withe@BRACKNELL-
> FOREST.GOV.UK]
> > > Reply To: Edwina Withe
> > > Sent: 19 May 2004 14:38
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [data-protection] UK's Data Protection Act Might Not
> > > Meet European Union Standa rds
> > >
> > > Just because the Durant ruling is obstructive it doesnt impose any
> > > obligation on you to be obstructive with regard to providing info.
> > > Surely it would be better to be open and responsive when dealing
> with
> > > SARs instead of withholding information just because you can?
> > >
> > > >>> Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>
> 19/05/2004 13:42:12
> > > >>>
> > > If we follow that track, it was, I think, in the early or mid 1990s
> > > that the
> > > Metropolitan Police Commissioner said that "police could no longer
> > > prevent
> > > crime, they could only attend it."
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hubert, Paul
> > > [STU]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:03 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [data-protection] UK's Data Protection Act Might Not Meet
> > > European Union Standa rds
> > >
> > > >Lack of enforcement means the law is bad law. It should either be
> > > >repealed
> > > or enforced.
> > >
> > > I think your view is too abstract, Tim. There are many areas of
> > > society
> > > where the enforcers of laws and statutory systems of regulation
> > > exercise
> > > discretion in a somewhat arbitrary way whether to pursue cases or
> not.
> > > The
> > > police don't pursue every burglary reported, and the HSE don't pursue
> > > every
> > > breach of health and safety. If every breach of any law led to a
> > > prosecution
> > > the whole of society would be constantly in and out of the courts one
> > > way
> > > and another. The problem is where there is so much discretion
> > > arbitrarily
> > > exercised that it becomes impossible for anyone to know where they
> > > stand
> > > because similar cases get treated in wildly different ways.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
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