Cashmore, Stuart on Friday, January 09, 2004 at 11:18 asked:-

> Why is it ok in some
> circumstances to take pictures of complete strangers without
> there consent but not at other times?

You are speaking of part of the public/private divide or privacy.

Amongst the photographic community there seem to be many opinions on this
matter, much as within DP.

See http://www.people.virginia.edu/~ds8s/peter-m/peter-top.html For one
practitioners approach which I have noted.

It does rather seem that defining a purpose for a photograph is not
something always considered when an image is taken, subsequently used,
repeatedly used, or re-utilised.

Could it be more to do with the interests of the photographer, or the
interests of the data subject(s) and which is paramount in each of the
circumstance(s) and purpose(s) in which the material is gathered and may be
available for use for? And as DP practitioners, we will all be aware of how
difficult, almost impossible at times, it is to maintain use for the
original purpose.

Ian W

> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Cashmore, Stuart
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:18 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: photos in exhibitions
>
>
> I actually broadly agree with you - I have the utmost respect
> for peoples' privacy and would never take a picture that I
> thought would cause offence. Of course, the subject and I
> might not agree as to whether or not it causes offence...
>
> What I am interested in is the boundaries of "public place"
> and "right to privacy". For instance, I spent some time
> visiting the Roman remains at Pompeii recently and took lots
> of pictures (100+) of the site. By the very nature of a place
> like that - a major tourist attraction - it was very crowded.
> Some of my pictures, try as I might, unfortunately include
> other tourists (I would actually they weren't in shot).
> Should I have asked their permission to include them?
>
> If the answer is yes then we must all give up taking pictures
> of anything in which there are people other than those from
> whom we can get explicit permission to be included. So forget
> your holiday snaps unless you can guarantee no strangers are
> in shot. Which brings me back to my earlier point about
> people in football crowds.
>
> The common sense answer (I hope) is no - and this is the
> boundary I am interested in. Why is it ok in some
> circumstances to take pictures of complete strangers without
> there consent but not at other times?
>
> Stuart
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Turner,Tim (Corporate Resources)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 09 January 2004 11:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: photos in exhibitions
>
> But does this mean that if you don't leave the house with a
> bag on your head, you're fair game? Admittedly, the bag might
> itself make one worthy of a photograph, but the logical
> consequence of what you're saying is that a camera is an
> automatic licence to capture any image one chooses to.
>
> Little kids in playgrounds, and road accidents are two
> examples of things happening in public places, but I don't
> imagine amateur snappers would be queuing up with their
> Nikons in those instances. And who defines a public place?
> Surely if you don't draw your curtains, someone might claim
> you're making yourself public. But if someone gets their
> camera out because an "interesting" picture beckons, I think
> an emphatic right to some measure of privacy might be
> asserted - with fists, if nothing else. Nothing stops the
> photographer taking the picture and then asking for
> permission to use it afterwards - and if you think the person
> might say no, or feel uncomfortable, does that put the
> "snatched" picture in a different light?
>
> Tim Turner
> Data and Information Security Officer
> Derbyshire County Council
> Tel: 01629 580000 ext 7373
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cashmore, Stuart
> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:46 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] photos in exhibitions
> >
> > Tim's response to my (deliberately provocative) e-mail misses the
> > point. Being a face in a crowd doesn't make you any less
> recognisable
> > in a still photo, and TV images can have individual images frozen -
> > and that's
> without
> > getting into really complicated image manipulation. In any
> case, where
> does
> > a "crowd" start? Ok, I have to get permission from a single
> person, or
> > a couple. But what about 20 people, or 50, or 100? When does Tim's
> > "crowd" begin?
> >
> > National newspapers tend to send a single photographer to a
> football
> > match
> -
> > a "lone" photographer". So he/she would have to ask everyone for
> > consent
> if
> > he/she took a picture of the crowd? Whereas the dozen or so
> TV camera
> > operators at a typical Premiership match wouldn't have to?
> >
> > As a keen amateur photographer myself I often take pictures
> of people
> > - sometimes individuals, sometimes groups - in public
> places because I
> > think they make interesting photos. I rarely know if the picture I
> > take is one that I will wish to exhibit until (i) I see the
> finished
> > product and (ii)
> an
> > exhibition opportunity arises for which the photo would be
> suitable.
> > Do I ask permission on spec? Also, many pictures "work"
> because they
> > are
> snatched
> > moments, taken when the subject is unaware and so is doing
> something
> > completely natural. If you had to ask permission beforehand
> then many
> > photos, widely acclaimed on artistic grounds, would simply
> not exist.
> >
> > In actual fact I think in this specific case the
> photographer WAS in
> > the wrong - he/she knew specifically that it was being taken for
> > exhibition - but I don't think you can generalise in the
> way that many
> > contributors
> have
> > suggested.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
>
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