Roland Perry on 07 April 2004 at 13:41 said:-
> I've lived in the USA the past six months and have
> yet to meet *anyone* who doesn't regard it as a "good thing"
> to *have* to carry your DL with you [when driving, which is a
> ubiquitous activity] and to present it as ID when required.
All of the e-mails in privacy groups voicing concerns against such matters
which I have read must emanate from outside the US. We have to accept that
different social groups will hold different views about this. Those views
will be influenced by the experiences those groups have memorised in myth as
well as the perceived benefits their social group may receive. Experiential
learning does seem to be a norm in these matters.
> There is a very strong "those with nothing to hide have
> nothing to fear" mentality, together with a strong personal
> safety culture that Americans perceive to be enhanced by ID
> cards.
It should be expected that the 'nothing to hide' justification will be used
by those who support such change, I would also expect an inherent trust in
authority to exist, which seems somehow antithetical for the US culture.
The confidentiality of individuals does keep coming up as a concern where
business financial/management/political or Political matters arise. I do
not suppose there is anything to worry about though as there will be nothing
to hide.
> but every parent's name address
> and telephone number is in a school directory given away free
> - go figure....)
Clearly a difference between privacy and social inclusion exists. The
degree of both is what this thread seems to be identifying along with where
that division may exist and what the personal information provisions
contained in the Directive and DPA attempt to facilitate. The different
social groups implementing those provisions then appear to practice
information management within that wider framework as necessary to fit their
cultural needs. A mandatory ID seems to ignore many of those social groups
experiential learning and cultural meanings in preference to one set by
others. If all groups calmly accepted another groups wish to experience
matters themselves, they would surely be denying their own culture. But
then they probably have 'nothing to fear', another common justification.
I have lived with ID for the majority of my life, in the military and the
police. Structurally and culturally both those social groups were reasonably
strictly regulated with ID supporting that lifestyle.
I suppose what I am asking is - adding up and including the issues emanating
from every social group, is ID really justifiable as inclusive for every
purpose it may be used for outside of that type of lifestyle, or is it
divisive? And how can such use meet the DPA principle requirements, or
should they be ignored for this particular matter?
Ian W
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection
> issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Roland Perry
> Sent: 07 April 2004 13:41
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Compulsory ID cards
>
>
> In message <002c01c41c8f$eb5fc640$663468d5@ntlworld>,
> ianwelton <[log in to unmask]> writes
> >> In the USA the population already accept that they need ID
> cards for
> >> lots of different things.
> >
> >That viewpoint of the US position, much like the one in the UK, does
> >not seem to be by any means a consensus opinion, more an
> indication of
> >a perceived need by certain interests where other easily available
> >options to answer those needs have been avoided for various reasons.
>
> I really can't work out what you are trying to say. If you
> are suggesting that there is not a consensus that an ID card
> is a good idea, or that the Driving Licence is not an
> appropriate vehicle for such and ID card, then you are
> mistaken. I've lived in the USA the past six months and have
> yet to meet *anyone* who doesn't regard it as a "good thing"
> to *have* to carry your DL with you [when driving, which is a
> ubiquitous activity] and to present it as ID when required.
> No-one, for example, wants drunk teenagers driving the
> streets, and the alcohol laws are seen as a very good way to
> prevent this (of course, all the teenagers have cars...)
>
> There is a very strong "those with nothing to hide have
> nothing to fear" mentality, together with a strong personal
> safety culture that Americans perceive to be enhanced by ID
> cards. (So, for example, I can't collect my own kids from
> school without showing ID; but every parent's name address
> and telephone number is in a school directory given away free
> - go figure....)
> --
> Roland Perry
>
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