The RNIB Guide was specifically designed for compulsory education and
shouldn't be used for post school learning really.
John M
John Rous Milligan
Senior Education Officer: Post 16
RNIB Education and Employment Network
10 Still House Lane
Bristol
BS3 4EB
Tel: 0117 953 7750
Fax: 0117 953 7751
Eml: [log in to unmask]
www.RNIB.org.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Hood [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 15 October 2003 14:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Scanning Maths Formulae
It's obviously a long time since Bernard was locked in a confined space
with a couple of mathematicians, but I concur with his general
analysis: for example the RNIB guide I mentioned (perhaps someone will
correct me on this) can handle up to about A-level standard but things
get ropey from there on into degree level maths.
More work for the purveyors of raised diagrams, perhaps?
Iain
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:35 +0100 Bernard Doherty
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> This is a shameless bump; can we take it that no one knows of any
> effective software that will manage complex equations? I think Iain's
> solution masks the problem rather than solves it: sophisticated maths
> notation is rarely a representation of spoken, natural language. A few
> brackets, an 'all over' or two, a sprinkling of 'to the power of' and
> very few people, sighted or otherwise, will be able to retain the
> expression, let alone apply it with confidence. In this regard, a
> complex equation is much more a diagram (like a mind-map, for example)
> than it is a sentence. Again, Iain is as aware as I am that Braille
> solutions, however effective, are always addressing a minority of the
> visually impaired and blind student population. Without a universal
> way of managing this, it is unfortuate that a number of students are
> simply unable to pursue core area of study. Someone invent something.
>
> Regards, Bernard
>
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:00:05 +0100 Iain Hood <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > It depends what format the student wants at the end point, Penny. If
> > enlarged text is the hope, photocopying would be better. If Braille is
> > what is trying to be achieved, I think you'll have to convert the
> > formulae into words (there is an RNIB guide, or a mathematician could
> > articulate the formulae) then these words could be Brailled (or put in
> > electronic format).
> >
> > As Bernard says, perhaps the scanner gonks have invented a
> > formula-reading programme, but I haven't heard of it.
> >
> > Iain
> >
> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:44:17 +0100 Bernard Doherty
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Penny
> > >
> > > I've looked into this problem several times and there doesn't seem to
> > > be any workable, commercially available solution. OCR Scanning
> > > software seems to read line by line, complex equations and formulae
use
> > > several lines simultaneously, hence the failure. One method is to use
> > > something like Omnipage and set the equations as a figure or
> > > illustration rather than text characters. In reality, this is how
> > > Equation 3 in Word or Mathtype work. This will succeed up to a point,
> > > but it increases the time it takes to scan material, it can't be made
> > > automatic and, if successful, the equation can't be managed by any of
> > > the standard speech engines. I know there have been a number of
> > > research projects into developing IT tools for blind and partially
> > > sighted maths students, but none of them seem to have produced
> > > deliverables (as they say in project-application speak). I would be
> > > really glad to hear that I've missed some common piece of software or
> > > of other ways of working, especially methods that students can manage
> > > independently.
> > >
> > > Regards, Bernard
> > >
> > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:18:25 +0100 Penny Roper
> > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > Bernard Doherty
> > > Student Adviser
> > > ACCESS Centre
> > > Anglia Polytechnic University
> > >
> > > Tel: 01223 363271 x2534
> > > Fax: 01223 417730
> > > Minicom: 01223 576155
> > > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > ----------------------
> > Iain Hood
> > Senior Student Adviser, Learning Support
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Student Support Services
> > Anglia Polytechnic University
> > East Road
> > Cambridge
> > CB1 1PT
> >
> > 01223 363271 ex 2316
>
> ----------------------
> Bernard Doherty
> Student Adviser
> ACCESS Centre
> Anglia Polytechnic University
>
> Tel: 01223 363271 x2534
> Fax: 01223 417730
> Minicom: 01223 576155
> [log in to unmask]
----------------------
Iain Hood
Senior Student Adviser, Learning Support
[log in to unmask]
Student Support Services
Anglia Polytechnic University
East Road
Cambridge
CB1 1PT
01223 363271 ex 2316
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