Dear Mick and all,
I'd like to clarify a few aspects of the electronic note-taking debate, if I may.

Mick wrote:
"In the case in question I was happy to recommend paying for the note taking 
service but had to point out that the DSA would not pay for the 'university' 
laptop, the software or cable."

We have been supporting students using this system for 3 years and LEA's are perfectly happy to pay for ONE lap-top and the Receiver's
software. As a service, we pay for the other lap-top and the Sender's software. It has never been queried.
We support/have supported as many as 15 students using this service and, as someone who has some experience of supporting and providing
support for deaf students, I can say with some confidence that it gives these students access that is both inclusive and equal.

You went on:
"Enquiring about the costs of this equipment (or rather the software) seemed rather expensive for what is essentially a keyboard echoing
program with knobs on. The sort of thing us old BBC micro users used to knock up in a lunchtime."
The Receiver's license is £100, the Sender's £150 - lap-tops are the same as always. 
 Not sure what you mean by your final statement, but it seems from your contributions so far that you have not researched and understood
quite what the software does. Further, it seems that students attending Assessments of Need are not given the opportunity to trial it. This
is surely not empowering the students or enabling them to discuss the relative merits of the system, from their own point of veiw, as
against the alternatives. 

You added:
"It occured to me that similar results could be obtained by connecting an 
AlphaSmart to a laptop by cable or Infra Red."

Using Stereotype software means a cable is not required to connect the two laptops because unlike other systems it works with wireless
networking. This has advantages over the two you describe. Infra red needs line of sight making it very vulnerable to interruptions. USB
cables are quite often not possible with modern lap-tops because the ports are no longer incorporated. In addition an important aim of
disability support is towards inclusion. Cables and infra-red systems force the student and support worker to be in close proximity whereas
wirless networking enables the student (or students) to sit anywhere in the lecture room allowing much greater sense of independence and
inclusion. Much has been made of the problems related to battery life and cables - as I mentioned above, we have been using the system here
in a variety of environments with a variety of students and with a little bit of adjustment (sometimes none but never unreasonable) plug
sockets can be made available and cables can be safely stowed. Batteries can be used as back up. Not a problem - take it from one who has
experience of providing this support. 

Throughout the debate that is taking place, the "knobs on" elements are being ignored. The features of the Stereotype software that cannot
be achieved using any of the various methods described so far, are as follows:

Editing - the note-taker can return to any point in the text and edit it to correct mistakes or add material in the appropriate place;

Abbreviations - these can be created and saved in separate files according to the subject being taught and then re-loaded as appropriate.
This saves time and increases the ability to produce a fuller text;

Meeting mode - enables the names of participants in a meeting to be saved and then produced on the screen by a single key press;

Student input - the Receiver's screen is split which allows the student to add his/her own notes without interrupting the flow of incoming
information and to add a marker to the text for easy reference later.

One-to-many - One sender can transmit to many receiver's thus allowing more than one student to be supported in the same session...now
there's a money saving option!

A crucial point that seems to be missing from this debate so far is what the student needs to achieve equal access. As everyone should know,
lip-reading is notoriously difficult and in most teaching environments in HE, almost impossible for the student to get access 'live' without
much missed information and potential misunderstanding leading to general confusion. Yes, handwritten notes will give the student adequate
notes to revise from, and some of the methods previously mentioned (like Rhun's) will give a fuller set of notes for revision purposes. None
will give decent live access that enables the student to contribute and integrate without being tied to a support worker. 

Cheers
Paddy Turner
Disability Support Manager
Sheffield Hallam University
0114 225 4981 (Voice)
0114 225 3964 (Minicom)
0114 225 2161 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sutton N L (LRC) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 30 September 2003 15:12
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic Notes for deaf students


If you attach the AlphaSmart to the laptop with a USB cable, you can see the text on the laptop screen, but not on the AlphaSmart(3000 I
have here) so this will work so long as the note-taker doesn't mind typing blind as it where, or limited view of the screen.  I am enquiring
to see if this can be got around as this seems like a good idea to me. 

Nicola Sutton
Disability Technology Officer
L215 Learning Resources Centre
University of Glamorgan
PONTYPRIDD CF37 1DL
01443 482436
07786 337596

-----Original Message-----
From: Baxter, Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 29 September 2003 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic Notes for deaf students

Thanks Bernard I didn't know the Alphasmart was so user friendly, time to get back into techie mode obviously.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernard Doherty [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 26 September 2003 19:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic Notes for deaf students


I don't follow this argument; generally, if people are going to do a 
lot of typing and are quick at it, the last thing I would recommend 
they use is an unraked, small key, laptop layout.  The alphasmart has 
it all over most notebooks in that regard.  In terms of connectivity, 
though, I think you might have better luck with a Dana, although I 
haven't tried a real time link.  It's still much more practical than 
the two hour battery life, heavy to carry, moving parts to fail, 
unnecessary background programs eating processor speed and bandwidth of 
the default notebook solution.

Regards, Bernard

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:34:16 +0100 "Baxter, Chris" 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hmm I feel sure Paddy from Sheffield Hallam will respond, one thing I
> would say Mick is have you thought about the ergonomics from the 
> notetakers point of view... extensive typing on an alphasmart 
> keyboard? Not to mention how easy it is to see what is on the screen 
> adn what about the facility where the studnet can make mnotes 
> themselves simultaneously or 'talk' to the notetaker, would an 
> alphasmarrt do all these things? And since the technology/software has
been developed and presumably supported by the developers wouldn't it be better to go with this rather than some Heath Robinson suggestion
that might or might not work which needs the user to be an 'old BBC micro user'(anorak). You wrote:  If using an AlphaSmart provides
wortable results, at £250m it would be easier to fund.
> Me:
> £250m would be a little over the equipmernt allowance amount wouldn't 
> it?
> 
> Friday cheesy grins
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Trott [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 September 2003 17:22
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Electronic Notes for deaf students
> 
> 
> I was recently asked to recommend the electonic notes system which
> connects 2
> laptops with the note taker's notes appearing on the student's laptop. The

> student gets a transcription on their screen immediately and a copy of 
> the
notes
> 
> In the case in question I was happy to recommend payting for the note
> taking
> service but had to point out that the DSA would not pay for the
'university' 
> laptop, the software or cable. Enquiring about the costs this 
> equipment
(or 
> rather the software) seemed rather expensive for what is essentially a
keyboard 
> echoing program with knobs on. The sort of thing us old BBC micro 
> users
used to 
> knock up in a lunchtime.
> 
> It occured to me that similar results could be obtained by connecting
> an
> AlphaSmart to a laptop by cable or Infra Red. Has anyone tried this?
> 
> I don't have any objection to HEI's paying for the full kit but I am
> sure
> many would find it hard to persuade their masters to make the investment.
If 
> using an AlphaSmart provides wortable results, at £250m it would be 
> easier
to 
> fund.
> 
> Mick Trott

----------------------
Bernard Doherty

Student Adviser
ACCESS Centre
Anglia Polytechnic University

Tel: 01223 363271 x2534
Fax: 01223 417730
Minicom: 01223 576155
[log in to unmask]