yes - I won't be thinking about it before then!
M
----- Original Message -----
From: BRYAN JONES <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Information in alternative formats


Hi Bernard. Lets see if I can respond to your concerns.
It is possible to produce Braille cheaply and quickly if one has a
Braille embosser, and I do have such equipment. However, not
being able to read Braille myself I would be wary of producing a
complex Braille version of something like a prospectus, because
no one here can proof read the thing and make sure it makes
sense. (references to " Student Support on page 47", for example
won't work because Student Support won't be on the 47th page of
the Braille version. One can get it done professionally, given a few
days, and that's what I would propose if it were requested. My
point was, I think, having a few Brailled prospecti (is that the plural)
on file, every year just in case, at a cost of something like 2
pounds per page, when done properly, given the frequency they are
requested is perhaps not the most efficient use of scant resources.

As to international students taking us to court, my understanding
is that they can, but they would have to come to the UK to do it.
Given that many international students have contacts, relative in
the UK and money, that is not too fanciful a prospect.

As for access to computers in countries that are not the UK, that
can be an issue. Check the email address of some of the
International student applicants, they can frequently be base at a
company or public centre, not the home. We currently have an
applicant in Nigeria who is blind uses Braille but does not have or
is able to use IT technology (apart from sending emails from a
public resource in his town for which he would use a Reader to
assist him).

On 22 Jan 03, at 11:20, Bernard Doherty wrote:

> Before lining up with the oppressors, I throw in something of an
> apologia. When Braille-reading students have applied to this
> institution in the past, from anywhere in the world, they have been
> sent Brailled copies of the prospectus, Brailled letters explaining
> entry requirements and support arrangements and generally anything
> else they require. If your institution owns an embosser and you
> produce this material electronically (rather than using a quill pen),
> the cost is negligible. Braille travels successfully in the post by
> being placed in a thick cardboard tube. It has been necessary to do
> this some four times in nearly 10 years; each occasion was before
> SENDA was passed. Braille copies of virtually anything are produced
> because this University is keen to attract students; the grounds for
> suggesting that we are compelled to do this seems doubtful.
>
> I'm losing track of the reasoning behind this argument. However
> universities in this country are obliged to treat students or
> prospective students, people living in other countries are not covered
> by British law unless some diplomatic reciprocal arrangement has been
> made. Whence the assumption that everyone everywhere is covered by
> the DDA and has a right to redress? For example, in what court would
> someone from a developing country bring suit? Unless it is a British
> court, what obligation has a British institution to recognise the
> court's authority? Until they are actually offered a place, many
> potential students around the world do not actually have a right of
> entry into the country, let alone protection under specifically
> British legislation.
>
> Elsewhere, people have suggested that enquirers will not have access
> to PCs to read floppy disks. In which case, how are they obtaining
> the Braille books that have enabled them to become suitably qualified
> to enter a British university? Is the suggestion that elsewhere in
> the world, dedicated teams are labouring over Perkins' to produce one
> English text book after another? (It might perhaps be best to
> remember that the teaching language is English and students have to
> demonstrate competence in that language.) At the same time, behind
> several of the contribution to this thread lies the knowledge that
> many people in the world are comparatively poor and so do not have
> access to the kinds of technology that we have (recently) come to take
> for granted in north. But are most people in the world potential
> students? How is it that people without a PC or access to a web
> browser or an institution that will give them such access are going to
> find the £10,000 a year plus living expenses (and personal support
> costs, in many cases) that is the cost of entry into British higher
> education for the majority of the international population? It is
> possible to imagine an infinite number of problems, but surely we are
> protected by the talisman of 'reasonable'?
>
> Regards, Bernard
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:22:00 -0000 Ian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > On the one hand you could argue that producing a braille version (in
> > the correct format/language) of the whole prospectus will create a
> > huge and potentially unmanageable document and that it's very
> > unlikely that an applicant would realistically want to read the
> > whole prospectus anyway. On the other, all applicants should be able
> > to browse all areas of the prospectus to choose their course(s) and
> > be able to find out about other aspects of the institution before
> > they choose where to study. The issue about whether the applicant is
> > from the UK or overseas might be a red herring, as you'll probably
> > need to show you're prepared for such a request - even if the first
> > request isn't from the UK.
> >
> > Audio-taped versions are just too difficult to use and many people
> > won't have access to technology to facilitate access to an
> > electronic format. I wonder if the best and most reasonable
> > compromise would be to produce a recorded version on CD-Audio, with
> > a braille/large print index. Once the recordings are made and
> > masters produced, this would be a fairly easy way of distributing
> > information. Information on each faculty/service could be placed on
> > separate CDs and split into tracks so they can be more easily
> > accessed and browsed through? Maybe the CD's could be dual format
> > (CD- ROM/CD-Audio) so they work in computers as well as Cd players?
> > Applicants could be given the option to request particular sections
> > in Braille/Large Print after browsing the CD.
> >
> > CD-Audio would also allow other 'print impaired' applicants to
> > access the prospectus and might even appeal to other applicants too!
> >
> > I wonder how colleagues in US-based institutions handle this
> > request, as their legislation has been in place longer then in the
> > UK.
> >
> > Ian Francis
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 Jan 2003 at 15:28, Andy Velarde wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Celia and to other colleges. yes it is, however, the actual
> > > issue still stands. Many thanks again, Andy ----- Original Message
> > > ----- From: "Celia L. Cockburn" <[log in to unmask]> To:
> > > <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31
> > > AM Subject: Re: Information in alternative formats
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Andy,
> > > > This wouldn't happen to be in response to requests from a
> > > > Pakistani-based "special school", would it? I suspect that we
> > > > have all been sent a very worrying (and potentially expensive)
> > > > request from a hotmail address.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 09:52 21/01/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Dear Colleagues/e-mail list members
> > > > >I'd be grateful to hear your opinion regarding HEIs duties to
> > > > >provide informations in alternative formats: 1.- Would you
> > > > >consider that our duties will be more specific from
> > > September
> > > > >2003? to what extent?
> > > > >2.- Regarding uk and overseas applicants
> > > > >Would you consider that different responsibilities arise
> > > > >according of the location of the enquiry? For example, would
> > > > >universities have a duty to provide prospectuses on Braille if
> > > > >the enquirier was located in the UK
> > > and
> > > > >can only access information on Braille. would we have the same
> > > > >level of
> > > duty
> > > > >if the enquirier were located overseas? Many thanks for your
> > > > >views, Best regards, Andy Velarde University of Kent at
> > > > >Canterbury
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Celia
> > > >
> > > > Disability Co-ordinator, Equality & Diversity Department, King's
> > > > College London, 7.36 James Clerk Maxwell Building, 57 Waterloo
> > > > Road, London SE1 8WA Tel: 020 7848 3799 Fax: 020 7848 3490.
> > > > This message may have been typed, but on a typically bad RSI
> > > > /WMSDs (Work related Musculoskeletal Disorders) day it will have
> > > > been produced using voice recognition
> > > software;
> > > > please ignore any dictation errors I failed to recognise and
> > > > correct.
> > > >
> > > > For appointments, please contact the Departmental
> > > > Secretary ([log in to unmask]); 020 7848 3398.
> > > >
> > >
>
> ----------------------
> Bernard Doherty
> Student Adviser
> ACCESS Centre
> Anglia Polytechnic University
>
> Tel: 01223 363271 x2534
> Fax: 01223 417730
> Minicom: 01223 576155
> [log in to unmask]


Bryan Jones
Disability Support Services Manager
Tel: 020 8411 5367