And you could think about checking the calculation. An EP we no longer use
got this wrong and wrote up their report on that basis

-----Original Message-----
From: Ekaterina Barakhta [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 28 November 2002 14:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Variation to assessment for non-dysl


As far as I know WAIS III UK test consists of following parts: Verbal
Comprehension(Infromation, Similarities, Vocabulary), Perceptual
Organisation (Picture completion, Block design, Matrix Reasoning), Working
memory (Arithmetic, Digit Span, Letter-number Sequencing), Processing speed
(Digit Symbol Coding, Symbol Search. Usually dyslexic students score average
or above on the first two points and below average on the last 2 points. If
the first 2 points are average, full scale IQ would be average as well (90
and above). Very unlikely 83. If this student was some sort of genius at
economic analysis it would have been shown on one of the index scores ans
subsequently full scale IQ would have been much higher. Literacy
difficulties (e.g. how to spell Tuesday) normally should not intefere with
measurement of Verbal comprehension or Perceptual Organisation.
Yet, for one reason or another university accepted this student. I don't
think we are able to do anything about it.

Regards
Ekaterina Barakhta
Development Officer
CATER
Open University
Walton Hall
Milton Keynes
MK7 6AA


-----Original Message-----
From: Iain Hood [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 28 November 2002 14:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Variation to assessment for non-dysl


Hi

One theory (and practice) runs that if someone is dyslexic then a full scale
IQ will be false: the performance and verbal IQs should be irreconcilable
due to the discrepancy model of dyslexia, just as if you are in a room of 12
6 year olds who are all 3 feet high and 12 60 year olds who are all 6 ft
tall (coincidences are always possible, I guess) then you are NOT in any
sense in a room full of averagely 35 year olds who are averagely four and a
half feet tall. Guess that's where the old adage "Lies, damn lies and
statistics" comes in. (My numbers are wrong, by the way: I got a calculator
out but then felt I could make the point as adequately by pandering
"plausible" rather than a "true" falsehood).

Similarly, or conversely, I can't think which, if this student is some sort
of genius at economic analysis (or something businessy and real) but can't
spell "Tuesday" or "February" (I think we'd all agree that might be a
dyslexic profile) then 83 might be a reasonable, though again I remind
myself, completely false full scale IQ.

The proof of the pudding would be: did the student get a degree and some
other qualifications (A levels or something) before entering upon this MBA,
are there other signs of intelligent life...etc.?

You're right John, 'tis a minefield. Ah well, lunchtime over.

Cheers

Iain


On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:39:01 -0000 John Conway <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> What is the feeling about minimum IQ levels for dyslexic students - I
> know this is a minefield but an MBA student with a full scale IQ of 83
> ?
>
> Dr. John S Conway
> DO
> Royal Agricultural College, Cirencester, Glos. GL7 6JS
> Phone +44 (0) 1285 652531 ext 2234
> Fax +44 (0) 1285 650219
> http://www.royagcol.ac.uk/~john_conway/
> <http://www.royagcol.ac.uk/~john_conway/>
>
> Declaration : CONFIDENTIALITY: The contents of this message are the
> views of the author, not necessarily the views of the Royal
> Agricultural College. This is a private message intended for the named
> addressee(s) only. Its contents may be confidential. If you have
> received this message in error please reply to say so and then delete
> the message. Any use, copying, disclosure or distribution by other
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skeates,St.John DEAL Awards Tm
> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 12:56 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Variation to assessment for non-dysl
>
> Conversely I have a student who has phoned me requesting a
> laptop because
> he has bad handwriting. The author of the report recommending
> extra exam
> time has stated quite clearly that there is no evidence of a
> Specific
> Leaning Difficulty yet his university have informed him he
> should have no
> trouble qualifying for DSA.
>
> We seem to be reaching a point where the definition of disability
is
> being constantly redefined in order to provide DSA funded
> support. Given
> the ever expanding boundaries of what qualifies for DSA and
> the plethora
> of experts willing to provide evidence of such, I'm starting
> to feel that
> 99% of the student population would qualify for DSA if only we
> probed
> hard enough! Since the definition of disability varies wildly
> depending
> on where you look and what you are trying to get out of it
> (try comparing
> the dictionary definition, DDA, DSA, Social Model etc etc),
> perhaps we
> ALL need to take a more responsible stance when it comes to
> determining
> what is and what isn't a disability related need. At the
> moment DSA is
> seen as an endless supply of ready cash and shoe-horning as
> wide a range
> of needs as possible into it allows institutions to absolve
> themselves of
> a large proportion of their own responsibilities towards
> funding disabled
> students. They can then spend their own meagre funding on, what
they
> would consider to be, more worthwhile causes. However, given the
> government's current financial predicament, both generally and
> specifically in the area of Higher Education funding, there is
> a very
> real danger that if DSA continues to grow exponentially, the
> matter will
> be taken out of our hands and far more Draconian controls
> introduced at a
> national level.Do any of us really want to see the reintroduction
of
> means-tested DSA?
>
> The one problem with gravy trains is that eventually they run out
of
> track!
>
> St.John Skeates
> Awards Section
> Bedfordshire County Council
> Direct Line 01234 316300
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ekaterina Barakhta [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 11:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]; Skeates,St.John DEAL Awards Tm
> Subject: Re: Variation to assessment for non-dyslexic students
>
>
>
>
> Hi Kirsty,
> I apologize for the late reply. I have a student coming for an
> assessment
> today who has similar problem that was described by you. He
> was assessed
> by
> Chartered Psychologist who clearly stated that 'his academic
> difficulties
> cannot be ascribed to dyslexia, as he shows good reading and
> spelling
> skills.' However this student has a specific impairment in
> cognition
> -
> namely in the ability to perform even the simpleast tasks at
speed.
> Obviously this is an effect of his longstanding epilepsy. It is
> interesting
> that this student was assessed by Dyslexia Institute. However they
> clearly
> helped to identify what he would need to successfully complete his
> studies.
> Therefore the assessment was very useful.
> My point is, maybe your student has some other health problems
which
> are
> totaly dyslexia unrelated however neurological in nature? Because
in
> this
> case a student definitely requires extra time in exams, dictaphone
> in
> lectures, maybe voice recognition software etc.
>
> Regards
> Ekaterina Barakhta
> Development Officer
> CATER
> Open University
> Walton Hall
> Milton Keynes
> MK7 6AA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirsty Mackenzie [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 November 2002 11:31
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Variation to assessment for non-dyslexic students
>
>
> Hi,
>
> How do other HEIs deal with the issue of students whose
Educational
> Psychologist states that they do not have a specific learning
> difficulty
> but
> do require extra time in exams due to slower writing speed
> (for example)?
>
> If you action these recommendations, is there then an issue of
> inequity
> to
> (non-dyslexic) students who have not had an EP assessment? Are
> you then
> in a
> position where, in fairness you should then be offering EP
> assessments to
> all students at the institution? (with nigh on 20,000
> students, I don't
> think our Hardship Fund could stretch to this, let alone our admin
> systems!)
>
> Any feedback or advice would be welcomed!
>
> Kirsty
>
> Disability Coordinator
> Student Services
> University of Brighton
> (01273) 642885
>
>
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----------------------
Iain Hood
Senior Student Adviser, Learning Support

[log in to unmask]

Student Support Services
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