Roland,

That is part of the point being made, although rather poorly.  In normal use
the information generated by the sender, and viewed by the recipient, is
that which is stored by either the sender or recipient (both being data
controllers of that data in that context for that purpose).

From what I understand, the traffic data which the communications service
providers, and ISP's deal with, is only that 'traffic' type data, for which
they have little justification to store once the delivery is made, as the
purpose it is generated for is completed; Given that exceptional
circumstances will occasionally occurr, which require traffic data for fault
tracing, so an on demand type recording or retention mechanism will be
required.

Where similar or identical data may be held by both the communications
service provider or ISP, and sender/recipient, the purpose(s) the data is
held and used for is what differentiates it.

Given the visible example in your response:  Held on our computers
(sender/recipient(s)), that traffic type data is in effect 'message content'
because that is the purpose it was communicated, and held for. e.g. as an
example.  Where traffic data is held by a sender recipient transparently to
them, it is being held as part of a record for another purposes. e.g.
address book, record of the message if forms part of, or other such purpose.

The purpose data is held and used for appears to be the key factor in this
debate, not what data is held.

After all does the purpose not determine the definition of the category of
data in the context of its use?

Ian W.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Perry" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: ISP's retention of Internet e-mail


> In article <008101c087e5$88f63030$032138d4@theweltons>, Ian Welton
> <[log in to unmask]> writes
> >e-mail messages being the data, including plain language address data
input
> >by the originator.
> >telecommunications data being the technical information on despatching,
> >routing and receipting, created by the telecommunications network.
>
> Remember that the originating (and destination) PCs are part of the
> network. So it will probably be accepted that the destination email
> address is "traffic data" [1] rather than content. And as the network
> requires the destination email address to be able to deliver the email,
> it is probably safe to say that it's also Communications Data, as
> defined by RIPA [2].
>
> Now, if you really want something confusing, the TDPD says you must
> delete traffic data on completion of the communication, but I bet almost
> everyone keeps a log of who they've sent email to, called an out-box.
>
> There's obviously a great deal more to this than meets the eye!
>
> [1] There's no such thing as "telecommunications data" in the world of
> RIPA, terms in use include Communications Data and Traffic Data.
>
> [2] Roughly speaking, the first class of comms data is "traffic data
> required to deliver the communication".
> --
> Roland Perry