Hi Eduardo,
Thank you for your message.
I agree with you about some of the origins of the meaning term design in Europe. It is different in English speaking countries and different also in the days of Islamic science that contributed, amongst other things, to Portugal's development.
In English speaking countries at least, the concept and terminology of 'engineering design' has been well established and predates by many decades the concepts and terminology of recent design fields such as 'graphic design'. 'product design' 'communication design' and the like. Earlier these were referred to as 'Styling' and such designers were referred to as 'stylists'
With regard to your earlier posts, I suggest the use of the term design has gone through a transformation and has effectively dropped its earlier Italianate meanings and tight association with drawing and art. The argument for this is the same you presented in regard to aesthetics and Baumgarden. If its time to drop the older meaning of the word aesthetics, it's also time to drop the older meaning of design as drawing for the same reasons.
Warm regards,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eduardo A. Corte-Real
Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2017 11:09 PM
To: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Design and aesthetics
Dear Terry,
All of the items in your list of “designs” are labeled in other languages as: arquitecturas, engenharias, projectos.
We will never agree on this because you are unable to acknowledge that the verb design on your language has nothing to do with the discipline of Design that become global.
But if you want to keep it as and English exclusive conversation, I must say, (AGAIN), that your “designs” have little to do with its original meaning in the early days of industrialization in your own language.
What you call Aesthetical Design is what Design meant when substituted expressions such as “applied arts” “estetique industrielle”, “desenho industrial” “arquitectura industrial” “angewandte kunst” and so forth.
However, I must say that I like very much “Design of memory chips”, this is something Tyrrells Crisps should consider. I will not pinpoint “design touch systems” but I secretly might wonder about its whereabouts.
Design of Telephony Systems??? Design of electronic communication systems ???
C’mom Terry, Are you planning to bring, in the end, the Holly Trinity into this?
Best,
E.
Eduardo Corte-Real
PhD Arch.
Associate Professor
Professor Associado com Agregação
[log in to unmask]
> No dia 04/07/2017, às 14:21, Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> escreveu:
>
> Hi Esra,
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
> I suspect you are thinking only of the design work done by designers from the art and design tradition.
>
> I was thinking of the design work from other disciplines necessary for the iphone.
>
> Material design (design of chemical composition of Gorilla glass,
> aluminium alloys etc)
>
> Structural design to avoid it breaking and bending
>
> Design of software codes
>
> Design of software languages
>
> Design of hard drives
>
> Design of memory chips
>
> Design of electronic communication systems
>
> Design of visual display chips
>
> Design of touch systems
>
> Design of security systems
>
> Design of the structure and coding of the iOS operating system
>
> Design of wireless systems
>
> Design of telephony systems
>
> Design of manufacturing processes
>
> Design or robot assembly processes
>
> Design of packaging machinery
>
> .... plus the other dozens, perhaps hundreds, of other areas of design
> that are not aesthetic design
>
> That’s why I suggested aesthetic design is less than 1% of the total
> design work in an iPhone and similar products
>
> Regards,
> Terry
>
> ==
> Dr Terence Love
> Director
> Design Out Crime & CPTED Centre
> Perth, Western Australia
> [log in to unmask]
> www.designoutcrime.org
> +61 (0)4 3497 5848
> ==
> ORCID 0000-0002-2436-7566
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Esra Bici
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2017 7:04 PM
> To: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and
> related research in Design <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Design and aesthetics
>
> Dear Terence and all,
>
> I am sorry to miss out where the statement "1% of the design work in (say) an iphone is aesthetics". I just realized it now. This statement feels a bit controversial to me. I think here, the time an energy that the designers invest on form design and the "iphone function" are compared, which came out as 1% and 99%.
>
> To cope with the controversy, first we can recognize that designing the form of iphone, 3d modelling etc. is not enough, but a part of defining aesthetics of iphone. iphone has a simple geometric form that is probably supposed to design in a shorter time or with a less design activity than "iphone function". But this simplistic aesthetics did not emerge in vacuum.
> This aesthetics has its room with a historical background of a more than one century. This is why it is accepted as in its this form. And reducing the iphone aesthetics to 'making a prism and filleting the edges' seems like a shallow view in this context.
>
>
> Another way to cope with this controversy, is to define he categories of function. Asthetics function, use function and symbolic function are different categories of function of a product. In this way, the aesthetics function of iphone is another important construct that makes up the 'iphone'. Iphone is characterized and recognized by its form as well as function.
>
> Such strict differentiations also seem to lead the discussion to a theme "form and function" rather than "design and aesthetics". This can be considered in visualizaton of the route of the discussion.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Esra.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Esra Bici <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Don.
>> Kind regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Deirdre Barron <[log in to unmask]> şunları yazdı (4 Tem 2017 11:32):
>>
>>> Thanks Don, just when I think this is all too bogged down you add an
>> amusing note-but with a pointed message
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone:
>>>
>>> Associate Professor Deirdre Barron
>>> Centre for Design Innovation | Faculty of Health Arts & Design
>>> Internal Mail H31 | PO Box 218 Hawthorn Vic
>> 3122<x-apple-data-detectors://3/0> |
>>> Ph: +61 3 9214 6091<tel:+61%203%209214%206091> |
>>> [log in to unmask]<
>> https://outlook.swin.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=p9W16Z_
>> g9Ei8fT45gvt62nyBYkbUJdIIos8URgAbejba0tSY6PS4g2ep0Z6abOV2z_-
>> lSC-WyG4.&URL=mailto%3arcooney%40swin.edu.au>|
>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/designinnovation<https://
>> outlook.swin.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=p9W16Z_g9Ei8fT45gvt62nyBYkbUJdII
>> o s8UR gAbejba0tSY6PS4g2ep0Z6abOV2z_-lSC-WyG4.&URL=http%3a%2f%
>> 2fwww.swinburne.edu.au%2fdesigninnovation>
>> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/
>> designinnovation<https://outlook.swin.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=p9W16Z_
>> g9Ei8fT45gvt62nyBYkbUJdIIos8URgAbejba0tSY6PS4g2ep0Z6abOV2z_-
>> lSC-WyG4.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.swinburne.edu.au%2fdesigninnovation>
>>>
>>> On 4 Jul 2017, at 6:18 pm, Don Norman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:dnorm
>> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I hate to reply and get further involved in this argument that has
>>> no
>> need
>>> to exist, but the attempt to use forklifts as an example triggered
>>> this response.
>>>
>>> But first, an aside.
>>>
>>> Some people asked me to define what I meant by aesthetics, missing
>>> the entire point of my earlier comment that the attempt to make
>>> precise definitions is what got us into this mess. So I refuse to go
>>> down that route. If I go near that, soon Ken will present us with a
>>> 25 page long
>> list
>>> of definitions from the Oxford Engish dictionary
>>>
>>> Some people pointed out that there are wonderful aesthetics in
>>> designing
>> a
>>> new procedure or even deriving a mathematical theorem. I completely
>> agree.
>>>
>>> And I want to say this about *forklifts.*
>>>
>>> I was once a juror in the IDSA yearly design contest and I -- and
>>> the
>> other
>>> jurors -- loved the Crown company's forklifts and awarded them one
>>> of our highest prizes. Forklifts can be aesthetically pleasing.
>>>
>>> http://www.crown.com/en-us/forklifts.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Esra Bici
>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:esr
>> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From forklift design, I can pass to the second point. It is supposed
>>> that in forklift design, there is no or little concern of
>>> aesthetics. I have suspicions about this assumption. I think there
>>> is a probability that if
>> we
>>> conduct surveys with a) forklift users b)forklift producers and/or
>>> c) forklift designers, we may end up with the result of
>>> prioritization of aesthetics aspect, who knows? Or the aesthetics
>>> criteria and expectation may not be at so low level as we guess.
>>> What I want to say is that there
>> is
>>> the aesthetics ingredient in every little "functional" product.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Don Norman
>>> Prof. and Director, DesignLab, UC San Diego
>>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> designlab.ucsd.edu/<http://
>> designlab.ucsd.edu/> www.jnd.org<http://www.jnd.org> <
>> http://www.jnd.org/>
>>> Executive Assistant:
>>> Olga McConnell, [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> +1
>>> 858
>> 534-0992
>>>
>>> Design Forward San Diego: Liberty Station. Oct. 25-27, 2017
>>> <http://designforwardsd.com/>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Esra Bici
> Endüstri Ürünleri Tasarimcisi
>
>
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